 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark
Date: 2001-09-16 19:53
When in Prague on a tour of duty with the British Council twenty years ago, I bought an Amati clarinet. After a long interval I have taken up playing again.
Amati have now told me that it is the top-of-the range instrument now called the ACL 604 (with a bottom E flat lever).
I don't think that this instrument is sold in the UK, but I have found websites in the US where it seems to retail for about 1,200 dollars.
Is anyone familiar with this instrument?
Does anyone know what it would be valued at in the UK?
How does it rate compared with Buffet etc?
Is it worth my while buying an A clarinet to match it, or would I be better off selling it and buying a new pair (of whatever)?
Any info gratefully appreciated!
Mark Perkins.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-09-17 03:06
Hey Mark: While I don't think an Amati is a bad clarinet, I don't see where it would compare with a Buffet or a Leblanc.
If you are happy with it, why get rid of it. On the other hand, if you have tried others and think they are better in any way, by all means, spend the money!
However, be cautious in purchasing a new "A" to "match" it. None of the newer clarinets is any better than the older ones. That also applies to the Buffets and most others.
No "new and improved" product is either "new" or "improved." They just want you to think it is. That way when it does not perform as well, you think it's you fault, not the product's!
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-17 14:56
I'm frequently in email contact with one of Amati's U.S. dealers, a young gentleman named Graham Golden. He assures me that the latest series of Amati clarinets and bass clarinets are much improved over the older models, and are now a viable alternative to the "Big Four" brands. I have no direct recent experience with Amati woodwinds, so please take this for what it is (second-hand information obtained from someone with a vested financial interest), however, I'd recommend that you contact Graham directly, he is at:
["Daniel Golden" <ddggolden@earthlink.net>]
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-17 15:01
Let me try that UTL for Graham Golden in another way (someday I'll learn HTML!):
ddggolden@earthlink.net
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-09-17 15:24
I've communicated with Graham some when I was looking to buy a Bass. That beign said, even he will tell you an Amati from the communist era is a fairly poor horn. After the glorious revolution, Amati built a new plant - completely retooled. As it turns out they have some good craftsmen, however lacked the tooling to make good on it. Their new instruments are not bad by most accounts (I've never played one), and are considered good intermediate instruments though they market them as top-of-the line alternatives.
Any new Amati you buy today will have little in common with the one made under communist rule that you have, so "buying an A to match" is a strictly academic question. I would think of your communist Amati as a beginner horn and think about upgrading from it in the future.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-09-17 15:34
To Peter:
I completely disagree with you. By your definition a 6 key clarinet form the 18th century was better in tune, had better key action than todays leblanc opus or buffet festivals?
The big 4 always work in collaboration with great artists to make better instruments. Are the Chadash barrels not an improvement, is the greenline not a mazing invention, and how about the polycylindrical bore?
Sure you can find fine instruments from the 50s and yes the quality of the wood might have been better. But honestly, I find instruments much more consistent right now, and you also get to choose between much more models than before. Just looking at buffet they offer many pro models:
R13, R13 prestige, RC, RC prestige, Festival, Elite. Before the R13 came out you had ONE single buffet pro model...
-S
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-17 15:45
Sylvain,
We are getting off topic, but I would challenge you to try out a Bb clarinet I just restored, a Couesnon "Monopole" dating (my guess) from the 20's or 30's --- I'd venture it plays as well as any modern Buffet, and it's my opinion that there are many other older clarinets out there that, with proper care, can play just as well as any of today's "technological marvels". Hard thing to prove, though, isn't it? (BTW the Couesnon is NOT for sale, it's for me! I've always loved the Monopole line of clarinets and saxes from Couesnon, very little known in the U.S. at least, but all very fine instruments, beautifully constructed.)
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Author: Graham Golden
Date: 2001-09-18 00:03
Hello and Dobry den ( as they would say in the Czech republic, homeland of the AMATI Clarinet) ,
many here may say that my opinion is Biased, but I do not personally feel so. I have had a large exposure to most "major" brands, and think I can make a fairly decent comparison.
AMATI is in the town of Kraslice Czech Republic, a small town of about 8,000 in the North Western corner of the country, right on the German border near Klingenthal ( see www.kraslice.cz ) Kraslice was originally a German town (Graslitz) and had many famous "German" manufacturers settle in the town about 180 years ago ( string makers have been there for about 400 years ). These companies included Kohlert and Kielwerth, I believe Julius Kielwerth, im not sure if Richard Kielwerth was ever in Kraslice. AMATI is a fairly new company, founded in the mid 1940s. After WWII there was a great anti German sentiment in Czechoslovakia. Many of the German companies in Kraslice where forced to leave, and the new communist government nationalized woodwind, brass and percussion instrument production to Kraslice because of the facilities that already existed there. AMATI struggled under the communist government, and had to work with very little money ( all profits went to the government) and pre war technologies. Because of this they simply could not make an instrument of any quality at all. After the fall of communism in Eastern Europe Czechoslovakia worked to modernize their industries. in the early 1990s there was a strong Slovak uprising in eastern Czechoslovakia and the Czech government, in attempt to avoid another "Yugoslavia" gave independence to the Republic of Slovakia. The newly formed Czech Republic took great pride in their instruments, and AMATI became an independent company under the name AMATI DENAK ( this includes AMATI Kraslice and the famed V.F. Cerveny rotary valve company located in Hradec Cralove) AMATI DENAK completely modernized their factories, built new plants scattered around the Czech Republic, and built a new, very nice and modern factory in Kraslice. Now they have one of the worlds most environmentally friendly plating systems, CNC machines, and computer aided designing for their instruments. The instrument itself is still made by hand and finished by hand. The bodies are made out of high quality grenadilla wood, they are all hand turned. The keys are now power forged and their designs where completely redesigned, and they are slowly being replaced by newer models every day. I can see design changes month to month in the instruments. I will admit they lack the "finishing" that Buffet, Leblanc etc offer. They are massed produced, over 7,000 horns a year. Their key work is a bit softer and thinner than their "western" Counterparts, the bores aren't polished supper smooth. They also only come in standard European tuning ( 442, with clarion ranges tuned slightly higher) but if you set your tuner to 442 they have almost perfect intonation. They are a Czech company with German roots so their horns have a very Germanic sound. They have a very forceful and loud tone. Their sound is very bright, lively and sweet. Much different than most clarinets produced in 'western" Europe. AMATI still retains very close ties with Kielwerth and many other northern and eastern manufacturers. If you have any questions regarding the quality of their instruments Mr. George Seger, the President of AMATI USA would be more than happy to have their extensive adjustment staff set one up for you if you are willing to stop by their warehouse in Mountain side NJ. I have a few here in stock that I would happily set up for testing here in Los Ranchos de Albuquerque New Mexico. The bottom line is, they aren't buffet or Leblanc horns, they are Czech horns and really aren't comparable. Comparable yes, comparable no. The Czech culture is one with a great emphasis on music, and arts and crafting. They really do know how to make instruments. They have had a problem making a name for themselves because AMATI DENAK really is a small company of about 200+ people. They do not have the funds that Boosey and hawkes, G. Leblanc or Yamaha have so they cannot make a strong introduction the American market. Their viewpoint on instrument making is not just a way to make money, but they believe it is an art form, and take great pride in their instruments. More so than most companies do. Their craftsmen start training in high school, and extensively study design, construction and how to play the instruments they make. They also participate in a very long and extensive apprenticeship program and eventually make the instruments that come off the shelves. I personally like AMATI clarinets more than most western horns but then again I am an odd character. the tonal characteristics I am attracted to probably aren't what most people enjoy, but being raised in an Italian/Hungarian/German house hold the sounds of the Czech AMATI clarinet just sounds more "right" to me. I have always been eccentric, and attracted to those things that are out of the ordinary. As far as intonation and craftsmen ship goes I give AMATI an A- to an A if a Concerto is an A+.
Sbohem!
Graham
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-09-18 00:51
It sounds to me that the Amati clarinets are simialr in a way to Petrof pianos (another Czech company). The Petrof come out of the factory beautifully finished but the internals need a good amount of adjustment (touch, regulation, etc.) but they're wonderful instruments when set up right. You need a very good dealer to get them right.
And yes, I own a 1991 6' 4" Petrof that I'm very pleased with.
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Author: Graham Golden
Date: 2001-09-18 03:23
Mark, Great comparison. newer ones anyway. old AMATI anything are better off wall hangings in an apple bees or TGI fridays.
Graham
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Author: Graham Golden
Date: 2001-09-18 22:07
Everyone is entitled to their own oppinion. I have had professional musicians and college professors say wonderful things about their instruments, but due to other endorsee contracts with Selmer etc they cannot public endorse the AMATI like without being hired by AMATI DENAK S.R.O. and thruthfully, the tone of AMATI instruments would sound a bit student to most people just because it is so different from the classic American, or western European sound. And the keywork i do admit is not as refined, attrative or durable as some of the other manufacturers. but in terms of quality, their PROFESSIONAL line is just that, a professional line. THey have a student and intermediate line. Here in the US the most common models are the ACL 201II-0-a, 211II-0, 311II-0, 314II-0 and they are not of a professional quality, but are comperable to their Western and Asian counterparts. A name sells an instrument, and the name "AMATI" has been damaged for so long it is hard to get it to become a recognizable sign of quality and craftsmenship. But in reality with most instrument companies becoming larger, and working more cooperatively you really dont know if the lable on your horn is really who made the instrument. I am pleased to say any instrument with the AMATI Kraslice ( AK ) trade mark is a sign of quality, and was made in Kraslice Czech republic ( although cases, some precussion etc are made elsewhere within the Czech Republic ). If i was allowed to realease the list of instruments that are actually AMATI stencils im sure you all would be suprised. WHo knows, your horn might be an AMATI and you dont even know it. the big 4, and many many many other popular lables do use AMATI to make several of their instruments, and some professional ones to. NOt all clarinets though, AMATI makes a huge selection of instruments.
Graham
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-12-30 06:44
The Amati bass clarinet I tried at the NAMM show had what seemed to be a very neat arrangement of the low C extension keys.
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