 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-09-13 00:27
Dear Listmates -
I posted this to the Klarinet board, but there may be some of you who do not subscribe, so I'm putting the message up here, too.
I was there and escaped unhurt, as much by luck as common sense.
I work at 1 Liberty Plaza, across Church Street to the east of southern end of the World Trade Center and 2 blocks south of the location of the towers. I got there by subway at 9:00 AM yesterday. (The subways were running slow, due to what the announcements said was a "smoke condition" at the WTC station.)
Tower # 2 had already been hit and was in flames at about the 75th floor. Broken glass, dust and thousands of sheets of paper were all over the street. People were still standing on the sidewalk, looking up at the fire. I thought a bomb had been planted in the tower. Nobody was saying anything about a plane.
As I went around the corner toward the Liberty Plaza building entrance, the second plane hit Tower # 1. I didn't see it hit, but there was a gigantic explosion, and everyone started running.
My building was already closed, so I went up to Broadway, another block east. Debris and papers from Tower # 1 were falling there. I quickly got on the subway and was back in Brooklyn when the towers collapsed.
I was surprisingly calm, as were most people. The horror started to come out in dreams last night. You lose a lot of sense of security when things crash down this close.
Thanks for letting me talk about this.
Ken Shaw
P.S., The news tonight says 1 Liberty Plaza is also collapsing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dennis
Date: 2001-09-13 01:06
Thanks , Ken, for sharing that with us.
During the 70's and earlyn 80's, I, too, worked in Manhattan. First lower, then midtown. Irrespective of the atrocity, unless one has seen the enormity of the WTC and its complex, few can comprehend the falling of debris from that height and the devastating wind blasts up the Avenues and cross Streets, when the bldg's collapsed. Thank god that you and many thousand others were spared.
Keep those 'comments' coming . Thank you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tim2
Date: 2001-09-13 01:20
Thank you for letting us know, Ken, and for not sticking around the area. I breathe a sigh of relief in hearing your words. The horror of it --- I just cannot fathom. I needed to hear your words.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph
Date: 2001-09-13 01:26
Ken - I am, as I'm sure are many of the other people who frequent these pages, certainly glad that we will continue to benefit from your insights and comments concerning the clarinet. It's hard to comprehend the level of construction when your perspective is a TV screen. Thank God you were one of the fortunate ones.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Allison
Date: 2001-09-13 01:31
I have talked to people (at my work) from all over the US and Canada and no matter where the shock is intense. I hope for two things, that more survivors than they expect will be there!, and that the president will be able to have the courage to say no to war actions.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Azzacca
Date: 2001-09-13 02:06
I too have coworkers all over the US and Canada. We spent much time yesterday making sure all our people in the areas were all right. One of our service technicians was supposed to be in one of the towers at 0800 (EDT) yesterday. For some reason he didn't make his eta... thank Goddess.
Several nervous hours were spent by one of my co-workers here in MN as her sister, a United flight attendant, had not been heard from. She had been due into Chicago about 0730 (CDT). Apparently she had gotten off that plane then boarded her next flight... to Washington DC. They were on the plane for some time before told all flights were cancelled. Her daughter, also a United flight attendant, has vowed to quit her job. Another co-worker also has family in the "field" and we were all relieved to hear hers were all right.
A large account of ours in PA closed down about 10 (EDT) yesterday, as did many other customers in the areas. It was amazingly comforting when a canadian customer, after having asked where I was located (she wasn't sure if we were in the US or Canada), expressed her deepest sympathies.
I have the fortune to work from home, and was able to spend most of my day yesterday watching TV. Although I missed the first showing of the second plane hitting, I was watching as the towers collapsed. Thank Goddess they went straight down, but the heat from the burning fuel brought them down much too soon.
My heart goes out to everyone who lost someone in this tragedy, and I pray this is resolved quickly.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-09-13 03:10
Ken, my prayers (along with those of many others) are with you and those whom you knew. So glad you're ok. I've been to Jerusalem many times to play in the orchestra there and know how difficult it is to function under the constant threat of terrorists. However, I think our own situation here in the US is far worse than any that has taken place so far in Israel. Not to negate their situation, of course, because many of my friends live in Jerusalem and are there this very min.
I hear stories from them every time a bomb goes off. One of my friends was on her way to take her children to school when the bomb went off in front of the French school the other day.
This is unspeakable and horrible evil and must not be tolerated any longer. They (terrorists) have nothing to lose and do not care about the pain they inflict upon others. It makes it so much closer to home to know one of our own so narrowly escaped injury or death.
One of my good friends is a fireman in Manhattan. I have not yet heard if he is dead or alive. He was one of the ones who rescued several people the first time the WTC was bombed. He said it was a nightmare.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Swickard
Date: 2001-09-13 05:52
Has anyone heard fron Guy Chadash--his shop is there in Manhattan.
We need to say many prayers for allo concerned.
Jack Swickard
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris Ondaatje
Date: 2001-09-13 10:34
I am writing this from Australia. I would just like to record my sympathy to all the familys and friends of victims of the tragedy. I feel absolutely usless here. I would like all the American people to know that the mood of the people in Australia is right behind you. You have our love and our prayers.
Chris.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rene
Date: 2001-09-13 11:57
And from Germany, my heart wants to add.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2001-09-13 15:46
Ken, glad you are safe. God Bless America--that we all stay safe!!!!! And Bless the rest of the World while Your at it--You know we all need it!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon.
Date: 2001-09-13 16:12
Guy Chadash's shop is well out of range. It's up near Port Authority.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-09-13 17:11
Allison said:
"I hope for two things, that more survivors than they expect will be there!, and that the president will be able to have the courage to say no to war actions."
--------------------------------------
No one wants unnecessary or hasty confrontations. On the other hand a devastating & horrible action has taken place. Make no mistake about it, the U.S. will take the necessary & proper action(s) in time.
IF, that action, involves a declaration of was, I believe that all Americans expect it will be an appropriate RE-action. I think that before a atstement is made like yours, one has to go back & review history.
Courage? NO, the appropriate decisionmaking & actions don't involve Courage. If you are looking for Courage look to the Policeman, Firefighters, fellow NY'ers, the passengers of the doomed Plane that went down near Pittsburgh, PA, and a cast of many, many other Americans.
Here is a thought-full piece by a Canadian :
TO THE UNITED STATES
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war mongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon-not once, but several times-and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help
of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
Stand proud, America!
--------------------------------
best,
mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mary Vinquist
Date: 2001-09-13 18:30
This is Ken's wife. No one was more relieved when he walked into our apartment than I was. Ken has probably never gotten a bigger hug than that one.
I too am glad that you will continue to enjoy and be enlightened by Ken's "comments".
Regards to all,
Mary
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nicki
Date: 2001-09-13 19:28
To everyone:
Thank God (or whatever higher power you believe in)
for every day you are given to play the clarinet. No one
knows how many one is given!
And remember to tell people you love them, as often as possible.
To Ken:
May time bring peace to you Ken, and to everyone in their time of
great mourning.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ~jerry
Date: 2001-09-13 22:08
Mary V. wrote,
>"Ken has probably never gotten a bigger hug than that one."
Sounds like we almost lost you twice, Ken.
I'm happy you and yours are okay............I always enjoy reading your posts. And we pray for all who are impacted by this tragedy. It appears that all New Yorkers have heretofore really stood up to this event with the utmost courage.
I am further saddened for the changed skyline of NYC..............as an architect I took special interest in watching the WTC grow and become a major landmark in a relatively short period of our history. It took ten+ years to construct that complex.
However, "From out of the ashes .........."
~ jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jenna
Date: 2001-09-13 22:28
Yeh.. the change alone is one of the biggest shocks, I think. I went to NYC in May with my high school marching band and I have pictures of my friends and I in front of the fountain in the plaza.. playing hacki-sack in front of one of the towers.. at the Statue of Liberty with the skyline in the background.. it's odd to think that none of that is there, or that some of my friends may not come back. I found out last night an old friend's sister was in the tower, and hasn't been heard from yet. He lives in Canada now, and has no way of getting back home to his family. If you believe in such things, keep his family and those like them in your prayers.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2001-09-13 23:08
I agree with everything said above, but please let us not forget that music should transcend all boundaries. I have just been listening to a wonderful record by Munir Bashir -- an Iraqi, as it happens.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Eileen
Date: 2001-09-14 04:50
I live in Chicago and have a great view of the Hancock Building which is one of the tallest buildings in the world. Everyone in Chicago has been looking up at the Hancock and the Sears Tower and trying to imagine what it would be like if the same thing happened here. Last night (Wednesday), the Hancock building put on red, white and blue panels of light on the top of the building. You can see it for miles. It seemed the right spirit: that a cousin of the WTC would proudly display the national colors even if it might give some crazy terrorist an idea for another target.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rene
Date: 2001-09-14 06:02
Yes, this is a board for music. So just one plea: Don't let yourself be carried away from hate, as difficult as this may seem in front of that slaughter. There will be military actions, but please, effectively and precisely. Let it not be a matter of revenge, but one of preemption. The aim of the day is to get ALL nations to work together in the fight against terrorism. And the parole of the hour is compassion.
Rene
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-09-14 12:38
Thank you Rene, for your wisdom re: our national crisis and time for decisions. And thank you, Ken for this added post, we all rejoice for you "survivors" and pray for more. Our FLAG is up also. Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2001-09-14 14:55
Ken, thanks for sharing your story. I rejoice that you are with us still.
Extremely tense here in D.C., where I work five blocks due north of the White House. Haven't picked up my clarinet since before Tuesday. I think I need to get back to the discipline and beauty of music so I can fight back my fear and refresh my spirit.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetgrammy
Date: 2001-09-14 16:27
When a foreign "entity" purposefully attacks one of our government buildings such as the Pentegon, it is recognized as an act of war. It is considered a declaration of war from that group of people. Just like Pearl Harbor. When it is combined with the slaughter of thousands of innocent, non-military people--it is time to stop putting people in prison to "punish" them for terrorism--it is time for war. So, put away your normal way of thinking and get ready to be a true patriot and support the President. We are no longer going to allow terrorists to blow people up and just get a slap on the hand for it. Enough is enough. It does not take courage to refuse to fight.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larry
Date: 2001-09-14 18:27
Being a true patriot does not mean following a president lockstep wherever he wants to go. He has a lot of work to do to bring us all along with him - that means sincerely working with Congress - both Republicans and Democrats - decrying our own demagogues and fanatics (such as Jerry Fallwell), and building a worldwide coalition for the appropriate action. George Bush has not earned my faith yet.
I live in New York City - my wife was in the Battery Tunnel when the first plane struck - I have friends who've lost family (one a Port Authority policeman) and family that live a quarter mile from ground zero. The only two emotions that I've been able to feel since Tuesday have been uncontrollable sadness about the loss of people and my city and rage about how we were left so exposed by our national government. How could it have been so easy?
On the more trivial, clarinet level - I was only able to pick it up last night, and then could only play the Adagio from the Mozart Concerto and a few other sad pieces. It does help a bit.
Thanks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dave Beal
Date: 2001-09-14 20:11
I'm not at all sure that military action is the answer. I'm afraid that if we rely on violence to solve this problem, the US and the Islamic fundamentalists will end up in the same kind of bloody stalemate that's existed in Israel and Northern Ireland for decades: mistrust and violence breeding more mistrust and violence with no resolution.
If we do launch strikes in Afghanistan, what's the best that we could hope for? That bin Laden and the other leaders of his organization are killed? If they are, others will rise to take their place. Whatever the reasons, the world has plenty of fanatical hatred toward America.
We're quick to raise comparisons with Pearl Harbor. Yes, striking back with devastating force worked against Japan. But against Japan, we knew where to drop the bombs. The Muslim hatred of American is spread over much of the world. Bombing Afghanistan won't destroy it.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I think we Americans might benefit from taking a moment to try to understand why terrorists do what they do. Suicidal terrorism is the last resort of people who feel oppressed and powerless. Certainly, the actions of Tuesday can never be justified, but maybe we can gain a little insight into the motivation. And maybe that will begin to suggest a solution.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-09-14 22:01
Why does it seem like people discuss, for the most part, the political aspects of the situation we are in, when clearly there is a huge spiritual dimension--the battle between three of the the world's largest religions--Islam, Christianity, and Judaism? Is the conflict in the Middle East and the struggle for Jerusalem merely a political issue in the hands of world leaders, or is the hand of God involved? Do we as a world give lip service to God, but in truth, trust in our leaders and militaries? I think the spiritual battle here is real, and is being minimalized as a major factor in the equation... but I feel as if I am in the minority, as least practically.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Christoffer
Date: 2001-09-14 22:09
I will take this opportunity to express my compassion with all those who has suffered from the tragic events. I am in Denmark, far away from NY, with few connections to the US - never been there, don't have any close friends from there. But such a thing like Ken Shaw's report brings it all close. I've never met him, don't know what he looks like - he's simply one of those people who has been so valuable for me because of our shared love of a specific musical instrument, and I'm glad to hear that he's still out there to provide lots of information and advice on clarineting in the years to come.
Apart from that, I will add that what Dave Beal says represents my view pretty well. I also hope that this tragedy will not result in blind hatred towards all muslims. I have a lot of muslim friends, arabs and others, and there is already a lot of people here in my country that seem to think that they are all intolerant fanatics. They are not. They are nice people and find this event just as tragic as anybody else.
This will be enough about politics from me. Now, back to the clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-09-14 23:11
Dave Beal wrote:
> Suicidal terrorism is the last
> resort of people who feel oppressed and powerless.
No, it is most commonly the first resort of fanatics.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KevinS
Date: 2001-09-15 04:29
First off, I would like to express my thankfulness that those fellow clarinetists that have reported in here, especially Ken Shaw, survived the attacks in New York and Washington DC. Everyone contributes to the little society that is Sneezy.org. For any that did not make it, my prayers go out to you and your families.
In response to Dave Beal,
I don't think there is any understanding what a terrorist does, or why.
A terrorist is: n. A radical who employs terror as a political weapon. (Websters definition, one of three).
There is NO REASON that can justify what has happened to the thousands of Americans and their families, friends and associates in this incident. I disagree with those that feel military response is not the answer. I believe that there is no choice but to respond with the military. I think that we, as a country, must work to stop terrorism altogether. Not just against America and Americans, but everywhere. Failure to respond to this as an Act of War will minimize the memory of our fallen Brothers and Sisters who paid the ultimate price on September 11, 2001.
This is my opinion, and I would stand behind it with my life.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-09-15 18:04
KevinS --- I am PROUD of your response. The VAST majority American feel the same way. Actually, public opinion is very, very strong that a response & "answer" is necessary to protect the fereedoms enjoyed _THROUGHOUT_ the Wrold by the many.
Let us remember, that most Countries in the World owe what freedom they have, to the "attitude" of the U.S.
Rest assured that America --- the United States of America will strike back against those who need to be dealt with in respect to the action take on Tuesday morning in NY & @ the Pentagon.
I am happy to see the posting of our NY contingent here at the Sneezy BB. We are all thankful.
NOW, if you still want to criticize the U.S. ---- wait until OUR action is over. 20-20 Hindsight is much easier. Remember, though, it's much more difficult for those who are entrusted with a World leadership role in safety. If we don't do anything, this will come to YOUR door sooner.
What goes around, comes around. It's a very small world in that respect ....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ~jerry
Date: 2001-09-15 19:19
I promised myself I would not do this. Well! I just can't help myself.
My $0.02 of a one-hundred dollar bill.
Everyone seems to be looking for bin Laden in connection with this atrocity. However, there are probably a few associates here on the BB who are too young to remember much about the gulf war, and a few who have not cared to remember.
For those of you who do remember, recall what one middle-eastern leader called that war -- The Mother of All Wars has begun. There is no doubt in my mind that his prediction was more than a threat. This week's events did not *start* this week (as is obvious),,,,,,,,,,,,I believe it started ten years ago and it has only just begun.
So, those of you who have reservations about military intervention had better uderstand that that, and loss of some of your freedom is the only way this situation will be resolved..............you certainly can't *negotiate* your way out of this when it is obviuos that there is no one to negotiate with.
Certainly, some of us may not live long enough to see how all this ends. The sad part is that it is possible that my grandchildren's children my not enjoy the same freedom that you and I know. Even our local laws change constantly because a *few* take advantage of others. Expect this to happen more and more at the federal level just to protect us from a *few*.
$999.98 left unsaid and better that way.
Now where did I put that new Greenline..............back to the regularly scheduled practicing.
~ jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-09-15 19:27
Jerry, it's good that you posted here. In fact, everybody with any inkling of desire to respond should check in & say something. We have a conversation & everyone deserves the right to be heard, whether in agreement, divisive, on the fence, confused, just listening, or whatnot.
I think we _CAN_ all agree that we wish that this devastation had never come to pass.
mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Patty
Date: 2001-09-16 05:26
My heart felt prayers go out to everyone! I am feeling very greatfull to be alive, each day is trulely precious and you never really know when it could be your last. It is important to make the most of everyday and be a good person, living through Tuesday has made me see this.
Blessings,
Patty
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dave Beal
Date: 2001-09-16 18:34
Please let me clarify a couple points about my posting. First, as I stated originally, I agree that there can be no justification for the terrorists' actions. What occurred on Tuesday were horrible crimes that can never be justified.
Second, I agree that a military response is probably required, to demonstrate American resolve and to prove to the terrorists that there is a price to be paid. And if possible, bin Laden (or whoever was ultimately responsible) should be tried for the crimes.
However, I remain sceptical that military action is the long term solution. Israel has tried to use force against terrorism for decades, and there are still people blowing themselves up on street corners in Jerusalem. In both Israel and Northern Ireland, negotiation and diplomacy are the only actions that have managed to reduce level of violence, however temporarily.
I just heard an interview on National Public Radio of a Indian man who has written a book about terrorist bombings that occurred in 1993, I believe. In one afternoon, ten bombs went off in downtown Bombay. They were a Muslim response to anti-Muslim riots. When he was asked why violence has not reoccurred in Bombay, he credited the creation of groups consisting of both Muslims and Hindus, to resolve their grievances.
I'll admit that I don't know exactly how to use diplomacy against a foe that does not even take responsiblilty for its actions. But I don't think America will make real progress against terrorism until we stop dismissing terrorists as being impossible to understand and purely evil or insanely fantical. Trying harder to understand how others view America and it actions in the world would be a good first step.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-09-17 02:43
I'm afraid this is greatly broadening the discussion by moving to historical perspectives. I'd be happy to dicuss off-the-BB. mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-09-17 06:13
What Dave said,
"First, as I stated originally, I agree that there can be no justification for the terrorists' actions. What occurred on Tuesday were horrible crimes that can never be justified."
just proves to me that, no matter how relativistic our society, things like this show us that there really ARE moral absolutes. What happened Tuesday, was wrong, period.
If I may state my opinion, I really do think there is a spiritual dimension to all these events. We are talking about three major world religions: Islam, Christianity, and Judaism (which are, interestingly, all based on the same ancient historical narratives). The scriptures of all three claim to have the sole claim on truth. IF God is real, who is He (Allah, Jesus, YHWH of the Jews, someone else?), and who is he behind in this? In the struggle for Jerusalem, the Muslims claim God's sanction; so do the Jews . Who is right? The struggle over Jerusalem is not just political, it is spiritual, and we need to decide for ourselves who God is. I happen to be a Christian, but I have studied much on Israel/Judaism and have a copy of the Koran and have gotten it back out to re-read it--to educate myself. I know that not everyone even believes in God, and that those who do, have different ideas of who He is, but I think that now is the time when we need to think more deeply about the spiritual struggle that wages in the Middle East--because now, it is hitting closer to home.
May I also add, I find it incredibly saddening, the racial slurs and attacks against American Muslims that have occurred this past week. We should be united as a nation and not pointing fingers at those who are innocent.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: merz
Date: 2001-09-23 19:50
Thank you Dave B. for your prespective. Kevin you are right nothing can justify such an act of violence. Mark , what is a fanatic and how do we isolate them from the rest of humanity?
I hope that as our anger and sorrow subzide we will be able to ask these questions and search for answers. Yes, we area very uninformed about the situations where wars are taking place and we often don't find out the truth until much later. A SPIRITUAL PERSPECTIVE...I think the American people are being called to have the courage to think for ourselves after taking some time to become more informed, we have a tendency to "not get involved". This tragic event has called us to get involved, at the least in dialogue at most in some kind of action, maybe letting our elected officials know how we feel and what kind of action we beleive should be taken.
After all we are a Democracy, one that we are proud of and love.
SUZANNE, Since the events on Sept. 11th, I've decided to become more informed about the the world that we live in and I've found that wars are usually fought over land or resources, look up the history of the Israeli Nation. The current one.
Any one who really beleives in God knows that there is only one Undivided Spirit, and i'm sure that not all the people in Israel and Palestine want to keep fightin. From a Spiritual perspective i see them as "Cain and Abel" remember them in the Christian Scriptures. They come from the same source, brothers, divided by Time and conquest. When will they get tired of killing each other?
I wonder about what happened in New York, is Jerry right? were we at war and didn't even know it? Who is the enemy and why?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
