 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-09-05 16:40
This may be old news but I received notice today that audtions for "The Presidents Own" Marine Band will be held September 21 and 22. The is a chair open for clarinet. Additional information may be obtained by writing:
Operations Officer
US Marine Band
8th and I Streets SE
Washington, DC 20390-5000
(202) 433-5714
<a href="mailto:HurleyJM@mbw.usmc.mil">HurleyJM@mbw.usmc.mil</a>
I hope I did that email link correctly! I don't have my html book handy.
Audition repetoire may be found at<www.marineband.usmc.mil>
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-09-05 16:42
OOPS! The email come out okay but here is the link:
<a href="www.marineband.usmc.mil" </a>
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: william
Date: 2001-09-05 18:15
Too bad the opportunity isn't open to us elder clarinetists--over 35--I would apply right now!!!!! Isn't that a form af age discrimination???????
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-09-05 18:18
I would not call it age discrimination when you consider that any position in the Marines is for fighting as a basic/expert rifleman. Band members not excluded.
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2001-09-05 19:08
It IS age discrimination, William. And for a very sound reason. Would you want a buncha ol' coots like us runnin' around trying to defend your house? The 'enemy' wouldn't have to do anything but hang back and watch us trip over ourselves :
First of all... any position in the armed services, from a rookie to a general, is expected to be fit for combat. It may be that you only 'resist the enemy' until civilians are evacuated and combat-trained troops arrive on the scene, but you have to be capable of that role. All other jobs are secondary.
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken
Date: 2001-09-05 20:30
Just to set the record straight, there are TWO and ONLY two specific music organizations within the entire US Department of Defense (acitve duty or Reserve) that DO NOT require their members to attend Basic Military Training,
1) The "Presidents Own" US Marine Band
2) The US Coast Guard Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2001-09-05 20:48
Didn't know that, Ken. I was speaking from personal experience. Thanks for setting it straight. I can understand The "President's Own" being exempt. I'm sure there's a good reason behind the Coast Guard exemption too. I just can't think at the moment what it is.
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-09-05 21:51
In peace time, the Coast Guard is under the Department of Transportation. It's only in war time (or when directed by the president) that it becomes a branch of the Navy. Maybe that has something to do with it. It is a military service, but most of the time it is not under the Department of Defense. That might provide somewhat different rules.
Bart
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-09-05 21:55
Of course, there are fewer active duty Coasties (total) than there are policemen in the city of New York. Maybe it's just to protect a limited supply of musicians. :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rob
Date: 2001-09-06 00:19
I am not certain (I am not an attorney) but my understanding has always been that the US Military is not required to adhere to civilian federal law or to provide the same constitutional guarantees provided civilian citizens of the US (which would not permit age discrimination, or any other kind for that matter) unless ordered to do so by the President (who is the Commander-in-Chief of all of the US military), the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, or Congress. While this may seem like age discrimination to a civilian, I'm relatively certain it is permissible under the military code.
Are there any attorneys out there who know the scoop on this? I'd hate to be accused of giving legal advice without a license.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-09-06 00:56
Calling on old (real old) information I always thought that the Coast Guard was under the Department of the Treasury (not Transportation) and only reverted to Navy control in times of war? Did they change this or am I wrong (2nd time this year)? Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken
Date: 2001-09-06 03:03
I don't know for certain what the Marine and/or Coast Guard regulations are governing their BMT policy. But I’m pretty certain it serves a "recruiting inducement" and aimed at attracting higher quality musicians for their organizations.
While we're on the subject, folks will occasionally post current openings for US military bands and Mark Charette has been gracious in permitting it. I need to get shedding but for those of you who would find this interesting here’s a "crash course" in the US Armed Services “active duty” band program and how it all breaks down (hehe). It’s rather encompassing if not complicated (as you would expect the military to be) but I'll give it my best shot:
US military bands, Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force are divided into 2 categories, “Premiere” and “Field” bands (US Coast Guard Band has only one band and fall under the Department of Transportation). There are a total of 7 “premiere” bands: 2 Army, 2 Navy, 2 Air Force and 1 Marines. These are considered the mother ship bands, the “class” of their respective services and enjoy a reputation for hiring and maintaining the highest quality musicians. 4 of the bands are located and operate in Washington DC, specifically the Navy, Marines, Air Force and 1 Army Band (Pershing’s Own). The remaining 3 bands are the Army Field Band (don't let that title throw you) in Maryland, Annapolis Band at the Navy Academy and the former Air Force Academy Band relocated at Peterson AFB Colorado (about 20 miles from the Air Force Academy and Colorado Springs).
The main distinctions/advantages between the “premiere” and “field” bands are premiere bands, 1) Practice an accelerated promotion system, they hire candidates and start them out at a "higher” rank and pay grade (this is also a recruiting inducement). 2) Again, enjoy a reputation for having the best, most talented and even world-class professional musicians. 3) Premiere bands are not limited to regional constraints and cover the largest footprint traveling/performing globally. 4) Members of premiere bands have the unique opportunity of "holding" their position for an entire career (enlisted up to age 55 or 30 years of service) and exempt from being forcibly transferred to another stateside or overseas band. They are also NOT deployable to a hostile area or war zone. Each premiere band has between 60-100+ musicians broken down into sub-component groups and responsible for supporting an endless variety of styles in specialized musical settings and events, e.g. concert bands, ceremonial bands, quintets, pop/rock, country, choirs, chamber and jazz.
“Field or Regional” exist in greater numbers and located throughout the US 50 states at military posts/bases and NATO-supported countries. These bands are predominantly the “work horses” of the service bands and boast very fine, professional-quality musicians as well. Many field band musicians routinely audition and promote into the premiere bands and the trend is steadily increasing. Field bands are responsible for performing either locally and/or for covering a specific “geographic” area, usually 4 to 7 states or as many countries in Europe, East Bloc, Mediterranean, Asia and Far East. As far as individual missions some only perform 100% internal support, e.g. troop morale, official base/post protocol functions, ceremonies, military parades, etc. Others have a larger scope and purpose to their missions such as community outreach/public relations, civilian parades, professional sporting events and service recruiting in high schools and colleges. Travel varies depending on unit operating budget and priorities, normally anywhere from 10-200+ days annually.
As far as “how many” field bands assigned to each service, it varies as well. Traditionally, there are more field bands per branch in the older services than in the youngest e.g. the Air Force. There are “roughly” 5 to 10 times as many Army, Navy and Marine field bands then Air Force field bands. Army, Navy, and Marine Field bands can number 40 to 100 per service; in contrast there are only 12 Air Force field bands worldwide.
Auditions standards for selection in premiere and fields bands are based on each band's specific needs and established standards. The Army, Navy and Marine field band audition requirements/process are the "most" standardized; the Air Force field bands requirements are slightly accelerated but standardized across their career field. Today, virtually ALL "premiere" bands and Air Force "field" bands hire only musicians possessing a minimum of a Bachelor’s Degree in Performance or Education. About 5% of Army, Navy and Marine field band members have earned Master’s degrees or higher as opposed to about 15% of Air Force field bands. Geared more to the entry-level professional The Army, Navy and Marine field bands tend to recruit/accept more High School graduates into their programs. One of the reasons for this is they offer a Combined Service Music School located at Little Creek Amphibious Naval Base in Virginia. Enlisted members who join must attend this 6-month music program upon graduation from BMT before they can unite with their assigned bands. (members can also “test out” of the school in 30 days). However, ALL accepted candidates in "premiere" bands and Air Force "field" bands are EXEMPT from this technical school, not required to participate and report "directly” to their bands immediately following BMT graduation (save President’s Own and Coast Guard Band).
Military Band "Officer" programs are another world and career path entirely and again form-fitted to each bands' needs. The two basic rules of thumb are accepted candidates MUST possess a Bachelor’s Degree in music, performance or education and hired as managers, commanders, conductors and administrators NOT as performing instrumentalists. For more detailed information just type “US military bands” in your browser and start surfing. Hope this helps! <:-)))
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2001-09-06 14:46
Bob:
I don't know for sure about the past, but the USCG is currently under DOT. At least it was the Secretary of Transportation who awarded a service-wide ribbon to the CG a couple of years ago.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jerry
Date: 2001-09-06 17:51
Oh, yes! The old alma mater. Even if I could play clarinet, and if I was 30+ years younger, I would not apply. Marched in too many parades and shined too much brass to want to do that again.
To support what was previously stated, my former clarinet teacher (Dr. Kevin Cox) was in the Marine Corp. He attended (euphemistically speaking) Marine Corp boot camp, Marine Corp band school, and played in a USMC band unit. Also, he taught at the USMC band school on his second tour. He told me that the members of *the* Marine Corp band (the presidential band as it is called here) do not attend boot camp. I think they do go through *some* training at the band school though. He said that he has played under the batton of Col. John R......(I don't recall his name but I have heard him on the classical station -- maybe someone else knows) with the Marine Corp Band. (unimportant trivia anyway)
~ jerry
Still in Clarinet Boot Camp
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2001-09-06 20:26
Hey, Ron B.--I guess that I qualify as an "old coot" and kind of get the picture your trying to cyberpaint. But I was at a "Presidents Own" Marine Band concert last month in Washington, DC, and from the looks of most of the band members (men and women), they would not be much more effective on the lines of defense than most of us at twice their age. There is no finer a band anywhere in the world (IMHO), but as a fighting force defending our shores from the invading enemy, NOT!!!!! So why not let some of us over-the-hill-and-slipping-down-the-other-side musicians sign on for "special duty"--that is if we could pass the auditions (as I am sure, many of us could)--and let the more athletic younger men and women practice the defense skills necessary to keep our nation strong and free. Lets face fact, if the "Presidents Own" ever has to be called into combat, we will all have to dig in and take aim. But lets pray that never happens, and, in the meantime, some of us "old coot" retirees could be having time musical times of our lives serving our country as military musicians. I would be first in line to give it a try. Just a thought..............Good Clarineting!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: willie
Date: 2001-09-08 04:28
All personel on actve duty in the military fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Off base, They are subject to all local civilian laws ALSO. That means if you steal a clarinet off base, the local constabulary has the right to try and hang you first. After they are done with you and you've done your time, the military courts will then try you for the same offence plus a few extra goodies they always like to tack on, and you pay the price again but in a Marine brig (not a fun place). Sounds like double jeopardy but, one is a civilian court, and the other is a military court. As for the DoT, The Guard was under the Treasury Dept. for decades (from the start) as it was orriginaly the Revenue Cutter Service. They have fought in every war we've been into as military. It was put under the DoT a couple decades agop as the peacetime mission followed their missions more the the Treasury Dept. The reason the Coast Guard is not under the Dept. of Defence during peacetime is because of the law enforcement duties of the Guard. By Constitutional law, the U S cannot use the armed forces to enforce its laws on its people unless Martial Law is declared.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ~jerry
Date: 2001-09-08 13:02
willie wrote:
"...and you pay the price again but in a Marine brig (not a fun place). Sounds like double
jeopardy but, ...."
I was in the military police (after deciding I didn't like "grunt" duty -- infantry) while serving as a US Marine. And, in that capacity, on occasion, served as a "prison chaser". You are right Willie. If you imagine Marine Boot Camp to be bad, going to the Brig is like going from Heaven to Hell.
I am not an attorney, but my understanding is that the reason that "double jeopardy" is not a factor, is that one punishment phase is for violating a "civilian" law and the second punishment is for vilating a "military" law, i.e. the UCMJ -- two separate crimes.
Anyway, what does this have to do with more serious stuff -- clarineting? So I'll SHUT UP!!!
Off to class today with my new teacher and only the mouthpiece and barrel -- starting Clarinet Boot Camp all over.
~ jerry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Roger
Date: 2001-09-08 18:55
I am an attorney
There is no double jeopardy because the crime is against two different sovereigns the U.S. & the state.
(This reasoning was rejected in 1971 or so in Waller v. Florida as applied to municipal ordinances so that if you cannot be convicted of a state statute and local ordinance for the same offense.)
I grew up in JAX FL and my father worked at NAS JAX. The shore patrol at NAS JAX were dirty. They would set up a radar gun right on a 30 mph speed sign (marking a reduction in speed) & if you were going 30.5 mph when you hit the sign, they tickedt you. In the mid 80's a Navy dentist contested a speeding ticket he got under those circumstances (it went to the U.S. magistrate) using so paradox invented by an ancient greek philospher. It went something like this this:
As there are an infinite number of points between point A and point B, it is impossible to cross point B because an infinite number of points cannot be crossed. The dentist tried to argue that it was impossible to cross an infinite number of points and therefore, he could have not crossed the speed limit sign. Obviously he got nowhere with thie challenge, but he was inventive.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
