 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-08-31 15:11
Further to my warnings about using citrus cleaner in some cases......
My attention has been drawn to a shipment of Jupiter altos. These had nickel plated keys etc which quickly developed a severe, dull, off-white corrosion.
Now I have a story... In connection with a past occupation, school teaching, I made many manipulative wire puzzles and had them nickel plated. I made a wooden box to contain them and 'varnished' it with polyurethane. I packed the puzzles and overnight they developed this same corrosion, caused by the polyurethane fumes.
Now is it a coincidence that the lining of these sax cases incorporates that delightfully firm strong foam that is not styrofoam, but probably POLYURETHANE foam.
Hmmmm! Hows that, Watson?
Now I am not saying that it is definitely the case in this case, but I wonder if Jupiter have tracked down the cause of their problem yet.
Perhaps I should add that according to the Grassi flute makers the pitting problem they had for many years on the silver plating was caused by the fumes given off by a glue used in the case construction.
Is this a conspiracy by the case makers, or just unfortunate industry ignorance.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-31 15:25
Gordon,
Your theories are entirely plausible --- perhaps some of our chemist/clarinetists (cheminetists?) such as Dr. Omar H. could confirm.......
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-09-01 03:29
Dear Gordon,
I believe that you are entirely correct. The chemistry is daunting for volatile compounds but those associated with polyurethane are definately corrosive to nickel or silver plating because they form ("complexed hydro-sulphur derivatives) - alias bad stuff for plating. Many of the other well known plastics and poly"products" also off-gas compounds that react not only directly, but in combination with some of our dirty air pollutants to form more corrosive compounds. What these companies need is a good chemical consultant (I would not run if nominated, and would not serve if elected !!) to analyze any changes made (supposing that the current product has proven not to harm the plating) in materials or construction paractices for new cases. I have had some interactions with unnamed "big" instrument manufacturers and, without swearing or being too damaging, they do not have the first clue about the effects of what they are doing in changing case materials or construction -- other than it is CHEAPER!
The Doctor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mr. Versatile
Date: 2001-09-04 00:17
I have a silver and gold plated alto sax. I purchased the horn new about 1 1/2 yrs. ago. The finish on the horn is pretty much ruined. Everywhere the case contacts the horn, the plating, both silver and gold, has turned a copper color. The right side of the sax still looks pretty good. But it too has changed color somewhat.
The horn has been immaculately cared for. Three M anti tarnish strips have been in the case since day 1. I've tried various silver/gold polishes in an attempt to remove the tarnish. No luck. I just got a brand new tenor from the same mfg., and it's black nickle plated. Naturally, I'm concerned about both instruments.
Problem is, new cases are expensive, and I'm especially broke right now. Any suggestions? If I do get a new case(s), what should I look for?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-09-04 02:36
Dear Mr. V,
Although I have many friends that are attorneys, I am not the litigious type in general. This however sounds like a product liability case par excellence (disclaimer - I am not an attorney nor do my views constitute legal advise, nor do my views constitute a formal or contractual relationship with those that read them)
if the product - the case - harms another product - your horn, then they should be responsible for repair or replacement. Sooner or later the "big boys" are going to feel the need to better research their products before introducing them to the market. Cheaper may end up being more costly for them in the end unless they do their homework!
I have not researched cases to find out the makeup or construction techniques but good luck with your new horn!
The Doctor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Roger
Date: 2001-09-04 11:14
As an attorney, I can tell you that the problem in this case with a lawsuit is ECONOMICS. To repair or replace one instrument may be worth about $2500 (a R-13). It is going to be hard to get a lawyer on a contingent fee basis when the recovery is $2500, especially since the proof of the plantiff's case could involve high paid experts.
A class action might work if there were enought people.
Even then, some warranties on cases matt restrict liabilty to case replacement. (No opinion on whether these restrictions would hold up in court---but they inject another issue that increases the cost of litigation.)
If your state has some sort of consumer protection agency, you could try to get them to take the case (poor pun) but I doubt they would be interested.
This may be illustrative of the principle that sometimes there are legal rights without remedies. I hope not.
The best avenue of approach might be to write the manufacturers complaining and to get other instrumentalists to do so.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mr. Versatile
Date: 2001-09-05 01:32
Thanks for your response. I appreciate you taking the time to write.
I'm not concerned about litigation either. For some folks, the first words out of their mouths is "Sue'em." Those are usually my last words, only used if everything else fails.
Actually, I got the new tenor as a settlement for the alto. I'm more concerned about the black nickle finish on the tenor. It's fine so far, (6 mo.), but I want to be sure if I get a new case that it's a good/safe one.
Thanks again for your input.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David dow Sympony NB
Date: 2002-04-26 10:22
The newer E11 cases are far better than the older ones..and man cheap plastic cases just fall open and wreck clarinets...the industry is an industry......
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
