 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Hans
Date: 2001-08-31 14:05
Dear friends,
After about 6 months of playing I am still experiencing problems with my right hand. First of all there is my thumb which continues to cause pain after some 30 minutes of playing. Since I have an adjustable thumbrest, I do not know what to put over it to make it a little softer so that my thumb stops to cause trouble. Anyone has an idea? Does the right thumb have to be slightly bended or not? Another problem is my little finger of the right hand: I am experiencing severe problems when trying to hit the Eb: (a) sometimes my 4th and 5th (the little) finger do not come down on the same time (b) sometimes they do but my 4th finger does not cover the tonehole properly and the result is the same - no tone. I think that perhaps it has to do with the position of my hand and try to experiment. Unfortunately there is no teacher around to see what is going wrong (I live in a Mexican rural area so....). Could anyone please explain the correct position of the right hand and fingers - I mean not what toneholes etcetera have to be covered but what are the details to keep in mind (all fingers slightly bended - little finger too or not, etcetera). Although I am improving there is still that feeling that my right hand position is just wrong. Anyone had or has the same problems? In advance many thanks.
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-31 15:13
May I make a suggestion?
First, I don't know your clarinet or the Adjustable Thumbrest ("ATR") that you are using.
BUT, I had a problem with the ATR that came with my new Buffet R-13. It has a (somewhat "Serrated") SCREW which can be tightened, thus maintaining the chosen position of the ATR. The SCREW will not allow anything on the market to fit OVER it, like the various "leather tabs" that come with Neck Straps.
Before I got my new R-13 with the ATR discussed above, I was very happily using a BG Neckstrap (I like the one which is elasticzed, my daughter likes the.one which has no stretch).
I noticed that my son's E-11 had the SAME ATR .. both were Silver (also available in Nickel). The DIFFERENCE between the E-11 & R-13 Thumbrest was that the R-13 has the SCREW and the E-11 had a HOOK.
***a HOOK***
I called Francois Kloc & was able to remedy my problem quickly. Platicnum Service IS Platinum Service. The Buffet ATR's are a bit pricey.
best,
mw
BTW: Jupiter has a VERY similar ATR, I think. Some time back Lars Kimser of the Woodwind Quarterly fame extended an offer to the Klarinet List to sell the Jupiter ATR for $20 post paid. A very fair offer.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-31 15:14
Oh, I forgot to mention. When I went to the HOOK on my Buffet ATR, I simply tossed the leather Tab that my BG came with & simply use the HOOK on the end. So now, I HOOK the HOOK ! mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hans
Date: 2001-08-31 19:53
Thanks,
The instrument is a Leblanc Spirit with ATR, it has a screw. I'll see if I can adjust the instrument the way you suggest although in the area there are no specialists and therefore I would have to do it myselve. I am also thinking of just getting some protection around my thumb which perhaps also should do the trick. Did you never experience the other problems I mentioned or know someone who has? Thanks again!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sue B
Date: 2001-08-31 20:11
Check out the Ton Kooiman thumbrests. I am using the inexpensive Etude thumbrest and it has made a world of difference for me.
Sue
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-31 21:16
Hans ... just get the HOOK from a Buffet ! (??? --- no technician necessary) mw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-08-31 23:01
Hans - We have talked about T R's several times before, Search the Phorum for our thoughts to those questions. I'll repeat my "simple-minded" solution to improve the "pinch character" of the rt thumb and 1st finger is to merely raise the TR [if you already have invested in one] to its top position, which for me makes covering the 3rd finger hole and accessing the rt hand low E/B touch easy. I do it without much cost by inverting the usual TR, a rubber cushion mau be desireable. Much luck, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hans
Date: 2001-09-01 00:09
Thanks everyone! I'll also check for earlier discussions, should have done it in the first place, I guess. Sorry for repeating! This is indeed a great bulletin board!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hans
Date: 2001-09-01 00:43
I read some of the earlier postings and they also contain valuable information indeed. My locked-up right pinky seems to be a common problem. I also have to try Dee's comment on having the middle of the thumbrest where the nail stops and the flesh of the thumb begins. Perhaps I should also try to bend my fingers just a little bit. It is strange but I feel that if I have my adjustable thumbrest in the upper position it is still a bit to low. Is this posible? My last question would be: does the right hand thumb have to be slightly bended too? I hope I can improve my right hand position and make playing a little more fun as I am only playing now for 5-6 months after a 20 year break! I guess I'll just keep practising and do my best!
Thanks, Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dee
Date: 2001-09-01 00:56
The right hand thumb generally should not need to be bent.
Some other tips.
The right hand wrist should be relatively straight.
The right hand fingers, including the little finger should all have a slight curve to them. Flat fingers will tend to lock up. Even if they don't lock up, flat fingers will limit your finger speed.
The elbows should be comfortable, relaxed, and next to your body. Not sticking out away from the body.
The correct thumb position will help you achieve a better finger position, which will make it easier to reach all the keys. Eventually it leads to the ability to play fast music easier as the fingers are more relaxed and able to move more naturally.
Good luck.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David
Date: 2001-09-01 08:12
I find my clarinet is heavy on my thumb so thank you for getting all those great pieces of advice - I have been thinking about a neck strap to take some of the weight otheriwse I fear I will develop RSI (I am starting to learn at 52 and had tennis elbow on the left arm a few years ago from repeated heavy exercise!) before I get a perfect embouchure!!!
Cheers
David
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Carmen Izzo
Date: 2001-09-02 03:32
first of all your hand position must be made sure of its correct-ness. Hold the clarinet like a telescope. and then angle it downward with your hands positioned in the same manner. then try playing. THEN look into thumb rests
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken
Date: 2001-09-02 18:38
Custom, adjustable thumb rest cushion:
http://www.woodwindbrasswind.com/product.jsp?node=45536
As far as right thumb, hand and finger position this is a bit of a lengthy and complicated if not confusing discussion and major “geek talk” but I've found it helpful, practical and results getting with a minimum effort. From my best recollection and street terminology this is what Dr. Marcellus taught me years ago concerning correct right thumb/hand and finger position. Natural hand shape and finger size dictates method and application. Solid fundamentals in correct hand position and building lightening technique has to do with developing a "natural" hand position combined with minimal “physical” exertion and movement.
Try this, sit or stand in your normal playing position, hold the horn in your left hand at the base of the top joint. Bend your right arm upwards at the elbow 90 degrees. From the wrist to your fingertips, let them hang completely limp. Next, give it five or six good deliberate shakes to get all the kinks and stiffness out. Your right hand shaken out it should be naturally somewhat shaped in a squashed backwards C. Moving just the fingertips at the first and second knuckles slowly bend them slightly inward duplicating playing position, again release any remaining hand tension, wrist and arm. You should notice your fingers should have stayed where you moved them. Keeping the hand perfectly still, rotate your hand parallel to the right so your thumb is at a 45-degree angle (you want to approach the thumb rest at that angle and not right to left). With your left hand guide the lower joint INTO your right hand and playing position like you’re slipping on a glove. Balance and rest the right thumb under the thumb rest at its most top and outside left corner but squarely on the knuckle so you could make a "thumb print" on the bore (if you already have calluses all the better). With your left hand, begin shifting and supporting the weight of the horn slowly to your right hand until you achieve a comfortable "right in the pocket" feel. Still, not disturbing the hand and fingertip position you established deliberately and slowly position your middle three fingers resting them slightly on top of the ring keys, rest your right pinkie between the Ab/Eb and F/C right lower cluster keys not on top of one or the other.
Basic exercises, working the right hand only, slowly (quarter=50) slur a 5th of an F major scale starting on low F natural to C natural and back down. Repeat X10. Concentrate on keeping your "whole" right side, shoulder to second knuckles perfectly motionless but applying any physical movement to the ends of your fingers (be sure to raise your fingertips high enough not to flatten pitch). Test yourself to see how much unnecessary movement you've eliminated. Pull out your trusty embouchure mirror and align it to where you can observe the effect. (bare armed). Try playing the way you normally do then re-set and try the new way; if you have excess movement you'll see a big difference. Before, maybe your top knuckles, hand, wrist, forearm or even pectorals and triceps were jiggling and tense, especially your tendons near the elbow. When you’re comfortable with that try playing chromatically from low F# to C using both middle and forked fingerings. Train/strengthen that pinkie with right side lower cluster key tremolos, low E to G to F to G to F# to G to Ab to G…devise patterns, clockwise, counter clockwise and in an X.
The 45-degree angle thumb position has a number of good benefits. It aids in decreasing finger, hand and wrist tension, forces the fingers closer to the keys, promotes fluidity, speed and accuracy covering tone holes. It also facilitates more even weight distribution on the thumb and eases stress and "hot spots" over prolonged use.
The whole idea is to decrease "physical movement" and focus it down, as far to the ends of your fingertips as possible, that's where the real technique lives. Tension creates more tension, restricts movement and produces in our muscles. A chain reaction that eventually extends up through your hand to your wrist, arm elbow even to your shoulder blade. The more the movement the quicker tendons fatigue, begin to break down and lose elasticity. Over time, this approach also influences other negative physical gyrations; conserve energy and cuts down on swaying, bouncing, even dancing, etc. Give it a whirl.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2001-09-06 02:06
Please understand that this is not advice nor a recommendation, but rather some suggestions that may be utterly useless for you... but they might help. Ken's comment that
>The whole idea is to decrease "physical movement"
bears careful consideration. I would add that ensuring the greatest comfort for the player is also very high on the list. The clarinet is manufactured so that the tone holes produce the proper notes, *not* so that it willl fit your hands. The right hand of the "perfect" clarinetist would be larger than the left, so as to fit the instrument better, if that were the primary goal. As no one I know would opt for hand surgery in order to accomplish this, seek to have the instrument fit your hand in the best way possible, rather than doing it the other way around..
I once had an instrument which simply did not work properly with my right hand. So I removed the thumb rest, found a hand position that fit me most comfortably and seemed to work, then reinstalled the thumb rest with new screw holes. Only moved it a couple of millimeters, but it made a great difference in my ease of playing that clarinet. Any clarinet is intended to fit *any* hands, which is obviously an unattainable goal. So if needed, customize the instrument so that it fits *your* hands better.
With the adjustable thumb rest, who knows -- it still may not be as "adjustable" as required for you. Perhaps you need to do something a bit heroic, such as moving the thumb rest, or bending into it a small change of angle, so that the instrument is a better match for your hand.
As for bending your thumb, do whatever is most comfortable for you that still allows your fingers the opportunity to move at their best and still cover the tone holes and strike the keys. If that means bending your thumb, by all means bend it. If you work best with your thumb straight, keep it straight.
My right little-finger has a bit of a "locking" problem also, which has become somewhat more pronounced with age. Fortunately, any such difficulty with my left little-finger is not nearly so noticeable, so it does not interfere too much with my playing. But I suppose no one is immune to using fingerings that are at least in part dictated by greater comfort and finger facility.
For the pain in the thumb, you might try a rubber thumb cover, available from most stationery stores. These are used to provide friction for thumbing through large stacks of paper. They are rather cumbersome, just under a millimeter thick and full of holes, but one might help by spreading the load a bit and cushioning the thumb. If it does not help, or if you feel it is too bothersome to use it, you have wasted only a few pesos.
Good luck!
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
