 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-26 16:18
The first time I saw a Selmer RI/Radio Improved --- I thought it said R1, too. John Butler corrected me at the time. mw
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-08-26 16:35
It doesn't look like a Full Boehm to me. The only thing that was added was the extention Eb and the G# mechanism.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-26 17:36
Yes it is a full Boehm. If you look closely, you can just barely tell that it has all of the following, making it a full Boehm.
Extended to low Eb
Alternate Ab/Eb key for left little finger (you have to look very close but it's there)
Articulated G#
Forked Eb/Bb (you can just see the 3rd ring on the upper joint)
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-26 17:38
David, I am certainly _no_ expert. BUT, I see LOTS of extra keys, unless my eyes are playing games.
NOW, is there something you were looking for that tells you it is NOT an FB horn?. We have had discussions here on Sneezy about the Buffet FB that _lacks_ the left-hand pinky Eb/Ab, yet is (very much) STILL an FB horn.
I see 3 rings on U/J, the xtra sliver key on the L/J, the low Eb key & tone hole, the extra hole in the U/J to accompany the articulated C#G# .... I see everything that I though was required. Thus clarinet sure looks FB, to me.
Like I said, I don't know everything and am certainly willing to learn. Comments from others .... ?
mw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-26 17:46
I would like to hear from any one who has restored or polished a "Silver Sleemer".
This horn looks gorgeous, but in some "quarters" doesn't have the regard that other Selmers receive. (not a KNOCK, but the fact that the CenteredTone and others are much loved clarinets)
Price is high, but my be justifiable (to an extent) on it's condition.
I could just kick myself on that double-walled Silver Selmer that Charlie Fail had on his website in the last year. I think Charles was showing it for $750 at the time. The silverplate looked perfect ---- albeit this one now on eBay looks MINT from the photos. Fail's wasn't an RI, I am thinking it was P series "Selmer Depose" ... merely French-made post war, early 1950's.
By the looks of this thing we might see higher bidding, maybe between $1500 & $2 before it's over.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-26 17:48
Dee, didn't see your Post. Also, didn't make out the left-hand pinky. Do you recall the recent discussion about the LACK of the left-hand pinky? mw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-26 18:05
Or was that a discussion of a basset clarinet? No matter. My question stands: Does the Fb designation REQUIRE the presence of the left-hand pinky Ab/Eb ? Thanks. mw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-26 18:18
Meant to TYPE FB (not Fb) ...
Also, meant to mention the mouthpiece which sounds like an OLD ... Selmer Table, held in high regard by some. There are different Table models, but this does sound like the oroginal.
mw
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-08-26 18:39
Interesting horn, but I still cannot see the left hand Ab/Eb. Can you really see it?
<hr><center><img src="http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/19185/998244263904_a_clar_5.JPG" border="6"></center>
<hr>
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Author: Al
Date: 2001-08-26 19:11
I don't see any Ab-Eb key either.
If you look carefully at the first photo, you won't see any left hand third ring.......nor the small pad which it activates. Also, compare the APPEARANCE of the other rings. The ring and the rim of the hole can be seen. Not so on the U/J third finger.
Al
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Author: Al
Date: 2001-08-26 19:26
No third ring. Check the photo showing the upper joint alone!
Al
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-08-26 19:48
I don't see the left hand Eb/Ab key either. Technically it is not a full Boehm without this key. And it doesn't appear to have the forked Bb/Eb either. Beautiful instrument though. I wish the major manufacturers would start making pro level metal clarinets again. Greenlines are catching on as players want a top quality all-weather horn. Good metal clarinets could serve the same function.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-26 19:54
mw wrote:
>
> Dee, didn't see your Post. Also, didn't make out the
> left-hand pinky. Do you recall the recent discussion about the
> LACK of the left-hand pinky? mw
Looks like we were composing our posts at almost the same time. No don't remember that thread myself.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-26 19:59
The seller has posted better pictures since I looked at this earlier. It is indeed missing the forked Eb/Bb on the upper joint so is definitely not a Full Boehm. So in this case we don't need to debate whether the absence of the the left hand Ab/Eb knocks it out of the Full Boehm category.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-08-26 20:19
The absence of either a left hand Eb/Ab key or a forked Bb/Eb would knock it out of the "full Boehm" category. The definition of "full Boehm" is quite specific and includes the two mechanisms I just mentioned plus the articulated G#/C# and low Eb. Minus any one of these four mechanisms and the instrument might be considered 3/4 Boehm, quasi full Boehm, near full Boehm, almost full Boehm, in the ballpark full Boehm, close enough for government work full Boehm, but never just "full Boehm".
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-26 20:31
Boy those are tough pictures, I agree upon looking/studying that the ONE photo of the U/J shows that the 3rd ring isn't there ... but when looking at the OTHER photo it does (almost) look like there is a 3rd ring there ... instead I can see it's just the way that the chimney for the 3rd tone hole is presented. I'm of an opinion, now, that photographs of metal clarinets are tougher to prersent accurately, particularly when polished silverplate is present. Perhaps a different background would have presented this "Sleemer" more better .... mw
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Author: Bill Gamble
Date: 2001-08-28 22:07
Interesting discussion of requirements for "full Boehm" designation. I have Buffet #X949 that I have called "full Boehm" for over 50 years, notwithstanding absenc of a left-hand forked E-flat/A-flat. Where is "full Boehm" defined?
Bill G.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-08-28 22:39
"Woodwind Instruments and Their History" by Anthony Baines. Page 134.
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Author: jim
Date: 2001-08-29 01:32
I looked at it and thought that it was full boehm because of the low Eb. i should know better. I have a Bettoney that that has everything but the 7th ring for the forked fingering. As it happens, I have a Selmer that really is full boehm. I paid considerably less on eBay. However, mine had a dented bell and the older style non-adjustible barrel. Also, it came without a case, which meant that virtually every spring needed to be replaced. (I really think there is a correlation between leaving a horn out of a case for decades and the springs going bad & screws rusting.) the Selmer articulated C#/G# relies on two springs that work against each other. Both have to be just right or it doesn't work. It took my hours to get it to work and I wouldn't claim that I have it 100% right.
Interestly, with the same reed and mouthpiece, I can play a half tone higher on the Selmer than on any other Bb that I have. It is really solid in the altissimo. I like the lower register, too. However, I find that it is harder to slide notes in the upper register. Altogether a very nice horn.
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Author: Daniel
Date: 2001-08-31 22:16
Just out of curiousity, i dug out my 1931 Selmer Catalog, and looked up the price for a horn like this one on eBay. Original price was just under $200. :-)
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