 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-20 14:22
Did any of you Festies try or hear a great C clarinet? I've got to get one for an upcoming event and had been thinking of the R-13 or just getting out cheap with the new Buffet E-11.
Also, any other great instruments you got a chance to try at the fest will be good to hear about.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-08-20 15:55
Ineresting. Suddently, it seems that we are all interested in C clarinets. Sign of the time maybe, or (based on Moore's Product Life Cycle Theoretical model), this instrument (so far reserved to specialists) might be about to hit the "tornado" and then settle down as a commodity. Quality will go up and prices will go down. Who will own the C market?
I do want a C very soon. I am also very curious to read the results of comparative tests if anybody on this Web could contribute.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-20 16:37
C melody saxophones were all the rage once (the 1920's) ----- look what happened to them! You can pick up any number of excellent old C melody saxes for $75, without even trying. Just try to find some use for them in an ensemble.........As for C clarinets, they'd be handy for the orchestral musician for the occasional Beethoven piece, I suppose, but generally such parts are so easy that transposing them on a Bb clarinet is a snap. So, bottom line, I wonder why C clarinets are becoming popular (if indeed they are)?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-08-20 17:00
Brenda, as with everyone else who attended the festival, we all tried so many clarinets or collective heads are probably still spinning. The C clarinet that still gets my vote is the R-13. I don't know if I would trade in my present R-13 siverplated C clarinet from 1990 (the exact one that Greg Smith uses - as I found out as we talked), but it still has that distinctive Buffet "ring" to the sound (for lack of better terminology). As Greg also mentioned to me, the quality control on the new Buffets seems to be outstanding. One interesting note (no pun intended) is that when talking to Ricardo Morales, he told me that eventhough he now endorses Selmer clarinets, his C clarinet that he uses in the Met is a Leblanc. Both Greg and Ricardo agreed (as I knew they would) that the C clarinet is practically a necessity for orchestral work, and basically "required" (Ricardo's words) for the opera.
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-08-20 17:19
Hi Brenda--i did not buy a new horn; however my buddy (connie) fell in love with the BIG EASY. I'l let her tell you all about her new baby.
Bob
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-08-20 17:41
The Leblanc Esprit is a good C clarinet for about 2K. There's also an Opus version that costs big bucks. And I've heard good things about the Patricolas, especially when they've been set up by Charlie Bay. C clarinets may not be used extensively in orchestral music but for alot of folk music--especially fiddle music--they're an absolute must.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-20 20:59
How many clarinetists perform folk music in this country? I suspect this would be a pretty small market. And (somewhat off-topic) there's a lot of mention of klezmer clarinet in the last year or two, but how many people actually perform this in public? Again I suspect that the percentages are very small compared to the better-known uses of the instrument (concert band and orchestra). Comments?
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-20 21:25
Well, it so happens I'm about to leave for my month in Israel and I will be doing both orchestral, opera music AND Klezmer---in public. Smiles, David!!!
I sold my Leblanc C a few years ago because I didn't like the key-action or tone. I played a Buffet E-11 C for ($800.00 from IMS) with a Chadash barrel and it sounded great for the money! But, I'm pretty exposed up there into a microphone and recorded for posterity---maybe eternity for all I know! So, I'm thinking bite the bullet and get the R-13 like G.Smith's.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-08-20 21:38
I would guess that the number of people playing folk or fiddle music on the C clarinet is growing. Especially with the growing popularity of Klezmer (which I'd never even heard of until about four years ago), Irish music (note the current Irish dance craze), and various "world" musics. I predict that interest in C clarinets will continue to grow but their use will always be a small percentage of clarinet playing in general.
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Author: Jerry McD.
Date: 2001-08-20 23:30
The comparison of the C clarinet and the C melody sax is not a good one. There is a lot of orchestral music written specifically for the C clarinet but I am unaware of music that was specifically written for the C sax. I would think that the rising popularity of the C clarinet is because the perception is moving toward the idea (correctly I think) that it is a proper tool for the trade and not a "crutch" for those clarinet players that don't want to transpose. There are plenty of orchestral parts that are quite difficult to play that are written for the C clarinet and transposing just adds an additional layer (Berlioz etc.......).
Jerry McD.
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Author: graham
Date: 2001-08-21 08:19
I'm currently looking at a reed trio by Martinu, for C clarinet, and its is tough doing that on a B flat. There are a couple of Noblet C's second hand in a local shop. They have a very wide bore for a C, but has anyone any experience of them?
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-08-21 14:04
Search the Klarinet archives. There has been discussion there of the Noblet C in the past. The folks who own them have generally been very happy with them, including (if memory serves) a couple of pros who use them for orchestral work. For years, until Buffet introduced the E11, the Noblet was about the only intermediate C around. A friend of mine picked up an (almost) brand new one on eBay awhile back and let me play it. I think hers plays very well, with good tone and intonation. The current model is a model 45, the high-end Noblet (compared to the Buffet E11, which is a student model). A new one will set you back around $1,500 at WW&BW.
IMHO, the used ones at your local store are worth trying out if the price is reasonable.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-21 14:27
I had the Noblet C and sold it on eBay--it was like brand new. I paid $1,895.00 for it. The Buffet E-11, in my opinion, is a much better instrument and International Musical Suppliers sells it for around $800.00. So, if the decision is for an intermediate level instrument--I'll go for the E-11. Wouldn't buy the Noblet again. I didn't like the sound or key action.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-21 14:32
Oh, and to add to Jerry and others comments about difficulty on the Bb after transposing--that's true. One of the pieces we play is quite difficult on the Bb and much easier to handle on the C. So, it's not just the transposition problem--it's a matter of making life easier in an already difficult situation.
Also, for that "Would you come play a solo for us this Sunday?" request from churches--a C clarinet makes life so much easier. You can choose from their hymnal and get their piano player and they're so happy about that. The C clarinet makes that a breeze!
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-21 14:53
Thank you Brenda, Robert, and Jerry for explaining the utility of the "C" clarinet --- I really had no idea. Geez, I hope I won't feel obligated to get one myself..........
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2001-08-21 18:00
C Clarinets: Many contemporary Klezmer musicians like the sound that a C clarinet gives. It has a smaller bore than the Bb, it has a “tighter tone”, and it is easier to cut through a band on it. The biggest reason that some players like it is... they don’t have to have transposed music to play it. The old timers routinely used Albert Bb, C and sometimes Eb clarinets on their gigs.
The fact that a Boehm clarinet works so well in all the keys is probably why you can get away with just a Bb Boehm. But the sound of a C is very different. You either like it or you don’t. I love it. Most of the Brandwein tunes on his albums (I believe) were played on the C clarinet. There is only one choice here The Buffet E-11 C clarinet. It cost around $850, is really in tune and is 1/3 the cost of any thing else on the market. Stay away from the Noblet! They are incredibly hard to get in tune and they cost more than an E-11.
These can use a standard Bb mouthpiece, but uses a different barrel. I recommend the Chadash C Clarinet barrel. This is a very enjoyable instrument to play. You will enjoy playing on one if you decide to get it.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2001-08-21 18:03
I’m playing on Buffet Prestige RC. This was an expensive acquisition, almost $4000. The instrument sounds great and tunes really well. I use a Ralph Morgan C Clarinet mouthpiece on it. About 1 year after I bought my Prestige, Buffet came out with the E-11, C clarinet. It is an awesome instrument, and the best part of it is that it is less than $1000.00. Don’t get me wrong the Prestige is a better instrument. But not $3000 better. With a Chadash barrel on it and a Morgan mouthpiece the E-11 is the way to go if you feel you want a C clarinet.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2001-08-21 18:12
What do people think of the Patricola CL-7? I bought one a few years ago, before the E11C was on the market. I'm thinking I didn't need to spend all that much and should have bought a Noblet for $400 less, then.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-08-21 18:27
I have heard good things about the Patricolas (as I mentioned above). And you can get them with the articulated G#/C# and auxillary left hand Eb/Ab key. And for players who like an extended low range Steven Fox makes a C clarinet with a range to low D. Lots of good choices for a C cl. out there.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-21 19:29
I agree about the Chadash barrel on the E-11. It is available at Lisa's place, as well as probably through people like Greg Smith (ask him and see). I played one at her store without the Chadash and then with the Chadash and there is no comparison. It was a marked improvement--plus, it makes it possible to use your regular Bb mouthpiece with it and the tuning problems are almost eliminated.
I have to buy a C within the next few days to get ready for my trip, so I'm really leaning toward the Buffet E-11 right now with the Chadash barrel. I'm also probably going to have to buy a new A--so look for my new Festival to go up for sale again. I'm going to take my greenline R-13 due to the weather changes and concert conditions in Israel.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-22 03:56
I wonder what a LARGE order of Buffet R-13 C Clarinets AT ONCE would do to the Buffet R-13 C price? Probably nothing, because after the order was delivered the status quo would return. Ah, Capitalism .... can't live with it; can't live without it. mw
ps - make mine SILVERPLATED !!!
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Author: Josh
Date: 2001-08-24 06:48
I actually just had my first experience with the Noblet C yesterday, and i was amazingly surprised at the tone and ease of playing for an intermediate level instrument. I was trying out horns at a local music store with a friend who is a professional flautist and we ended up spending about an hour playing duets...it was wonderful to not have to transpose! The response was fantastic, and it had that same amazing gorgeous LeBlanc tone I've fallen in love with. I'm pretty tempted to run back and buy it. (Not that I think it's going anywhere...the Bay Area is still very Buffet-y...all the better for me! hehe) Haven't tried the Buffet E-11 yet, but I'm sure it's a great instrument for the price, too. It's awesome that there are such great economically priced orchestrally keyed clarinets out there for students and financially-challenged serious clarinetists (I believe most major manufacturers now make intermediately-priced A, Eb, and C clarinets...hopefully this will do something great for high school orchestras everywhere! :-) :-) )
Clarinet well, friends!
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-08-24 16:37
David,
Just a note about the mention of c melody sax. They are also becoming popular. Finding one for $75 even on e-bay is getting tough. Then just as with clarinets you have to figure on repair and overhaul.
I just got a C melody sax last month on e-bay. It is the C soprano (not the C melody tenor) and this is a better horn ot compare to a C clarinet. You hardly ever find them, they always need a complete re-build, and they never go for less than $600. Likewise they have a thinner high sound which cuts through an ensemble and are great on 1920's music.
As far as use, they are becoming popular for use in church bands (that's why I got one).
Terry
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2002-10-29 02:40
Interesting comments about the c-melody! After being curious about the c-melody for YEARS I finally found one last year that I could not resist. It's a restored 1919 Conn curved neck model. I spent close to a year working with it, trying out various mouthpieces (vintage and modern), having additional repair work done to it, correcting quirky intonation, etc. I'm finally happy with it.
I've become completely smitten by the c-melody. It's sound is unique. Nothing else sounds quite like it. I use it mostly for contemporary jazz and classical work. I'm not interested in trying to recreate 1920's popular music on it. Strange as it may seem, as I ironed out the various problems with my c-melody I began to focus more on it (along with clarinet) and my soprano and alto saxes have become close to doubling instruments.
Happily, the c-melody is being rediscovered by progressively larger numbers of saxophonists. The joke going around about "How many c-melody players fit in a phone booth?" no longer applies. Some of the top-level jazz people now playing a c-melody include Joe Lovano, Dave Pietro, Anthony Braxton, Scott Robinson.... It appears to me that the c-melody has a bright future. In particular, as more jazz and contemporary classical composers write for it.
In case anyone's interested, the set up that I settled on with my c-melody is a Ralph Morgan 6M (.090) c-melody mouthpiece, #2.5 Alexander Classique reeds, and a Rovner Light Ligature.
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