 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Azzacca
Date: 2001-08-24 12:30
I'm not in the market for another clarinet, but I was wondering about this
one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1457279592
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-08-24 14:38
If you get this one, throw that old mouthpiece away. Who knows what's been growing on that reed!
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-24 16:25
Azzacca -
People selling B&H clarinets on eBay usually have no idea what they have. When they say "Awesome" you can be sure they don't know.
"The Edgeware" sounds high-class, but it was in fact B&H's least expensive wood instrument. Not bad, but not really great, either. They go for $100 to $125 on eBay, which is a pretty good buy for the equivalent of a Noblet or German-made Buffet. There are problems, though. First, the instrument is not being made any more, so it would be hard to get any replacement parts, and there are not many outside of England to cannibalize. Second, the English bore, feel and type of tone are different from what most Amercians play. While The Edgeware didn't have the very large bore of the B&H 1010, it was larger than most French bores, and you may have tuning problems without an English mouthpiece.
I was raised on Reginald Kell records, so I love the English sound. If you are interested, this would be a chance to try it out, for not a lot of money.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2001-08-24 16:34
SO...how big is the bore of the 1010? Is that the model known as The Imperial?
I'm looking at one as well as a 2-20. What do you think Ken?....How much should I pay for either of these? Thanks....John Gibson
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-24 17:33
I've restored a fair number of B&H The Edgware models (and I was playing one regularly in orchestra for about half a year), so I can comment on Ken's remarks a bit:
1) True, they're not being made anymore, but there are lots of them around in the States, and I happen to have three of them myself, so parts should not be a real problem. How often does one really need to replace a clarinet part (other than pads and corks) anyway?
2) Their intonation isn't 'spot-on' (as the Brits might say), but they do have a nice sound --- I'm also a big fan of the English sound (if you take away most of the vibrato, that is -- I just love their "core" sound, very liquid and rich). The biggest intonation problem I've found with the Booseys is their 12ths spread is very short, in other words, the chalumeau is relatively sharp and the clarion is relatively flat.
3) For a student/intermediate-grade clarinet, the wood used in the Edgwares (especially the mid-50's models, the best ones IMHO) is absolutely gorgeous! [Note: The 1954-55 Edgwares were hard rubber instead of wood, but otherwise identical and play just as nicely as the wood ones!] The keywork, however, ranges from merely average to downright lousy (on some of the late-40's models with the terrible 'pot-metal' keys). The ergonomics (feel) of the keys is (again IMHO) uniformly mediocre --- on all the Edgwares I restore, I do a lot of re-shaping of keys to make them sit better under the fingers.
4) Hopefully someone who REALLY knows will comment, but from what I've read the 1010 (aka Symphony 1010) has the largest bore at around .510", the Imperial 926 (I think that's the designation of their next line down) was maybe a bit smaller bore (?), and the Edgwares have about a .500 bore, still large but not outrageous.
5) To John: As I just wrote in another thread, the 2-20 is essentially identical to the Edgware, it's the 're-badged' follow-on model as best I can tell. Vintage early to late '60s (maybe into the 70's -- anybody know for sure? Dee?)
As Ken suggests, get an Edgware and try it out ---it won't cost you much and it might give you a bit different perspective if you're used to the French clarinets most of us around here play.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-08-24 18:50
Gibson in "Clarinet Acoustics" has some interesting things to say about the B&H 1010, with a 15.3 mm bore [ Dave, my calculator, dividing by 25.4 mm/inch gives me .602 " bore] . Selmers big Signature is .574", their Recital is shown as smaller .564 [I prefer the metric mm's personally]. I havent played a 1010 but what Edgwares [its a street and section in London!!] I've had my hands on, they were "big-volume" horns also, and, to me , mediocre in quality. Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-24 21:06
Don,
I'll concede that my bore diameter numbers are suspect at best (written with calculator unavailable and brain turned off!), but I'll also say that I've read Gibson's book twice, and I think it's basically garbage (interesting reading, but useless) -- unsubstantiated opinions presented as fact, conjecture reported as scientific theory, casual observations reported as scientific data, comparisons between vastly different instruments or mouthpieces used to 'prove' the effect of a single parameter, and perhaps worst of all, frequent references (sometimes out of context or improperly extrapolated) from Benade's superb and well-researched book. If there is a well-heeled clarinet enthusiast out there, please, please fund a real, comprehensive study of clarinet acoustics to continue what Dr. Benade started! Heaven help us should we have to depend on Gibson's book as a scientific text!
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-08-24 22:56
Dave,
You might want to read <B> The Clarinet Revealed</B> by Ernest Ferron, International Music Diffusion, publisher, if you haven't already. It is not detailed like Benade, but does offer some straight forward information without reference to any one particular brand of clarinet.
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-08-25 00:49
Thanx, John B, I had tried to find this publication earlier, failed and forgot, will try again. To try to answer John G more fully, I found in Lawson "Clarinet -----" on pg 29 quite a listing of cls and their bores at two locations, and a bit of recommendation that a serious clist should have a pair of 1010's and a pair of R13's. Yes, Dave, I'm aware of differences of opinion re: Gibson's investigations, I just read and accept what I wish, also. Benade is the best source. Don
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2001-08-25 02:23
Don,
You can order it through JL Smith. He's the only one that I found who had it. Other's may by now. I tried to get it through Gary VC's business first, but he didn't have it. Maybe he does now.
John
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