 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Beth R.
Date: 2001-08-20 19:24
I would like to ask....
For those who have been fortunate enough to try out many Greenlines, could you comment on whether they seem more consistent between each other than the regular R-13s as far as tone, intonation, and resistance throughout all registers? I'm told I should play a *lot* of R-13s before deciding on one for myself. But unfortunately, this is not an option for me unless I want to pre-pay for a LOT of horns through mail order. I'm lucky to find *one* R-13 to try in my area. Plus, the price at my local dealer is much higher than what I would pay if I purchased through WW&BW or IMS. (Local shops tell me, however, that their horns are hand-selected...but for almost $900 more than mail order? I don't know.) Getting a good, lightly used (and thus less likely to crack) Buffet near my home seems nearly impossible.
Though I'd be ecstatic to buy a brand new clarinet, I'd be even more disappointed to have a new clarinet crack. I'm not feeling so confident when I hear how frequently new horns crack - hence my interest in Greenlines. I know cracks don't have to mean the end of the clarinet, but I know what cracks do for resale. I also know I'm likely to want to try different clarinets in the future (based on my behavior with pianos...I'm on my 3rd in as many years. Some people want a new car every few years. I'll stick with my old Ford and just get new musical instruments ;-)
Thank you in advance for replying...
Beth R.
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Author: Roger
Date: 2001-08-20 20:43
I play an R-13 circa 1982.
From the many comments on this board, greenlines are pro quality and appear to have a little more consistency than non greenline R-13's. It is always better to try them.
As I recall, either at the Woodwind and Brasswind or International Music Suppliers, one can get an R-13 selected by a well known pro and brannized. Check their websites.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-20 21:17
If you plan ahead, you get fly to South Bend or a nearby city quite cheaply (much, much less than $900) and then go over to the Woodwind and Brasswind and try out a bunch of them.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-20 21:27
Love my new greenline R-13 that I got from Lisa at International Musical Suppliers for $1,798.00. Fantastic tone and response--more response than my Festival! Honest! I was shocked!
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Author: ~jerry
Date: 2001-08-20 21:59
I'm ecstatic about my Greenline I just bought it from Sneezy sponsor Peter Spriggs who selected it and included a complete overhaul with new pads -- See his webb site. My teacher who has owned his R13 for thirty years, commented that, "That's the way it's supposed to play."
The price from Peter was $1995 USD +$15 shipping.
Good luck.
~ jerry
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-08-21 02:11
Your best bet is to call Lisa at IMS and ask her to select a few R-13 from stock and then fly in to Chicago, the store is about 10 miles or less from the airport ( O'Hare, not midway) Do not fly into midway airport its almost impossable for a non Chicagoian to get to Des Plaines from Midway without a car and Midway is in a much less desirable section of town, I mean dangerous.
Take public transporation to down town Des Plains Illinois. And as a plus you can try other models and brands plus a large asortment of mouthpieces and accessories. Flights into Southbend Indiana are few and far between and you may be forced to stay over night in order to get a flight out. You can get into and out of Chicago from Denver the same day.
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Author: RonD
Date: 2001-08-21 02:19
One more thing ask for a mail order and have the horn shipped to your home to avoid the 8 !/2 % sales tax. or put a deposit on a horn and call from home to complet the transaction and avoid the very high sales tax, Its the highest sale tax in the state but out of state purchases are exempt from sales tax.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-21 15:04
Before flying to Chicago (I've done that), you might just call Lisa at 1-800-762-1116 and have her send you two or three R-13s. Ask her to play-test and send you the best ones. Then send back the one or ones you don't want. That's a lot cheaper than flying to Chicago, staying overnight, etc. (unless you live closer than I do). The interest on your credit card for the extra clarinets won't be nearly as much as a plane ticket to Chicago.
She hand-selected my greenline R-13 and many, many other instruments for me and I haven't been disappointed. She's a professional clarinetist and knows her stuff.
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Author: Beacea
Date: 2001-08-21 18:00
I tried a couple of Greenlines and found them to be more consistent than a non Greenline R13. I bought it and love it. My teacher is a professional and she could not believe how good it was all the way up the scale.
BTW: I went for the Greenline for the exact reasons you are. I would be heart-broken if, after 10 years of playing, it cracked - I did not want to be there!
I agree with Brenda - call the mail order, that is what I did, and I did not have to pay for all of them, just a deposit. I sent back the ones I did not like.
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Author: Beth R.
Date: 2001-08-21 19:57
Thank you so much for your advice, Brenda. I think I'm going to follow it. And although I actually have lots of family in the Chicagoland area (I'm originally from that area) I *don't* want to be flying out there right now. It would be hard, as I'm a homeschooling mom and wouldn't have anyone to watch my young children. (Three air fares - even minus the hotel costs - would be very expensive indeed.)
I'm glad to hear you think so highly of Lisa. I feel much better about calling her, knowing (from all I've read of your posts) how discriminating you are. If you say she's great, she must be great.
One of the reasons I'm so interested in the Greenlines is my impression that they are more consistently good compared to the regular R-13s. And since I really can't try out a whole bunch of horns, I'd otherwise have that nagging thought in the back of my mind that I might not have gotten the best (wood) R-13 that I might have had I been able to check more of them out myself. Also, I live in a very dry climate and worry that a wood clarinet would actually crack on the way here, just from the difference in humidity from the midwest! (I'm a worrier)
I've got a couple of other questions for you, Brenda. Is your Greenline silver-plated? (That sounds like a great price, if so.) Also, did you have the Brannens do any work on your clarinet before IMS sent it out to you? I was looking on the IMS site online and found a page that talked about the Brannens. Unfortunately, the printing on the page was unreadable! (frustrating!) I was wondering if it listed prices or options. And I'm also wondering how long it usually takes to have horns prepped by the Brannens. (Yes, I'll also ask them these questions when I call.)
And another question...(almost done, I promise!) Would there be any reason with the Greenline to try to control the humidity in the case (with a dampit)? Do the Greenlines not swell or shrink at all with humidity changes? <---This may sound like a stupid question, but they *are* still 95% wood, even if it's ground up. Right?
Thank you for taking the time to read and answer my questions.
Warm regards~
Beth R.
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Author: Beth R.
Date: 2001-08-21 19:59
Jerry,
I'm thrilled to hear how happy you are with your Greenline! It does sound like the way to go.
Beth R.
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Author: Beth R.
Date: 2001-08-21 20:09
Hi Ron~
Much as I'd like to see my folks who live in the Chicago area, I'm just not up to flying right now. If I were single and childless, it might be a different story. But I'm going to have to put my trust in Lisa at IMS, who seems to be highly thought of, to choose my clarinet for me.
I suppose if I were patient enough to wait until the Christmas season, I'd actually be able to drive over to IMS myself. But I'm not that patient. I've got clarinet fever (thanks in no small part to this bulletin board - if someone doesn't get inspired after reading this board, they ain't gonna!) I want that new horn soon!
I appreciate your taking the time to answer my question though.
Thank you~
Beth R.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-22 03:50
We have not discussed Tenon (fitting - swelling) issues with the Buffet Greenline R-13.
With a Buffet R-13, Tenon swelling (wood-on-wood) problems are fairly customary. Of course, with Buffet Platinum Service this is no big deal. [[ ... besides when you get a Francois Kloc to work on your Tenons you can mention the OTHER little sqawks & really get them fixed, not to mention a cork pad here or there! ]]
Has anyone experienced any similar Tenon problems with the Buffet Greenline R-13? I have not heard of any such problems. Of course, it's entirely possible that Tenons could have fitting problems from the Paris Factory that have nothing to do with swelling, etc. The Buffet Greenline R-13 that I tried @ Brook Mayes was cinch to put together, smooth as can be.
Thoughts from Greenline Owners would be appreciated ....
Best,
mw
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-08-22 17:21
Nothing serious at all. However, it seems to me that if I leave the CL "together" on the stand from one practice session to the next (generally 24 hours), that there seems to be a slight swelling ..... in other words, when I disassemble it there is a little bit more tightness than I recall from the previous assembly. So, now I don't leave it assembled over night like I did my Vito. After practice I disassemble, clean and store it in it's case.
Maybe not necessary but I feel it prudent in this instance.
~ jerry
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-08-22 18:03
mw:
I have an RC prestige Gl and I did not experience any troubles with swelling or anything like that. I have the steel tenons though...
But as any other material, the glue/wood composite dilates with heat.
By a very cold day, if my horn was in my out in my bag for long enough the joint won't be completely tight and the reverse is true it's really hot then the tenons swell a bit.
I bought my GL in 1995, and everything still fits perfectly.
I'm thinking of sending it to the shop for a complete overhaul but I don't think it needs it...
-Sylvain
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-22 20:09
Jerry, how much & often are you LUBRICATING your corks? My children experience the same thing & when I examine "the situation", eg take apart, the LACK of lubrication is apparent to me. On the other hand, if the clarinet came with Tenon-on-barrel, etc (with a wood clarinet, we call this wood-on-wood) then it wouldn't be a problem of SWELLING. It would (likely) be a sloppier production job/quality control @ the Buffet Factory. The latter is UNLIKELY as you told us your clarine/ came through Peter Spriggs.
Sylvain, are you saying that you _DO_ think you have experienced swelling of the Tenons (to whatever degree, as the condition is my curiousity, e.g. not the amount of the pregnancy) ?
Best,
mw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-22 22:33
Beth, sorry to be so slow. I was out of town today and am just now getting back to my computer to answer emails, etc.
No, my greenline is not silver-plated. I just didn't see spending the extra for that when I have a brand new Festival with silver-plated keys and I planned on using the greenline R-13 as an outdoor instrument. It is not Brannenized, but my Festival is--although I'm thinking about having the greenline done but may not have time before I leave the country. You set up an appointment with them and it only takes a couple of days. I overnighted my Festival to them and they overnighted it back to me when they were done. It was set up for over the weekend and I had it back pretty quickly. It was worth the trouble and I really think I will do the greenline when I have the extra cash.
And, as to fit and finish--the bell is hard to remove after playing for a while. That isn't a big deal to fix--but it has been a problem a time or two.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-08-22 22:54
mw:
Sorry I was not clear.
As far as I can tell, the tenons of my instrument have not changed at all over the years. (long term picture)
I never leave it assembled for more than a few hours and clean and lubricate the cork regularly. I actually never had problems disassembling the instrument. (short term picture)
I hope this was clear ;->
-S
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Author: jerry
Date: 2001-08-23 11:53
As stated earlier, mine has had no *problem* and not even dificult to disassemble.........only that there seems to be just a bit more friction in seperating the upper and lower sections (compared to the ease of assembly -- and only after it has set over night). I check the joint lubricant each time it is assembled and lubricate accordingly -- never any exceptional friction on assembly.
Bottom line: I have no complaints about this horn what so ever (the musician, yes). I feel confident that if there is a problem Peter will fix same.
So the only thing missing here is the development of the musician (and his discovery of a new teacher).
~ jerry
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Author: Forest Aten
Date: 2001-08-23 15:08
Buffet is not charging higher prices on silver plate clarinets, than on chrome plate clarinets.
The cost to the dealer is the same, as far as I know. (This is what several Boosey & Hawkes/Buffet sales managers told me....even as late as last week at the ClarFest)
The chrome plate is expensive because of the required environmental cleanup.
If you are being charged more for silver plate, I'd ask some questions.
F. Aten
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Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-08-23 15:15
Actually, I remember reading the MSRP brochures on Buffet clarinets, and you ARE charged more for silver plate (by a few hundred dollars - but that's still MSRP). Now, I'm sure the process and costs of plating is the same, but it still costs more for silver - probably for the reason mentioned above.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-23 15:29
Yes, the silver-plated greenline R-13 was priced at $300.00 more than the nickel-plated keys--everywhere I looked.
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Author: Kathy Beatty
Date: 2001-08-23 19:14
My 2 cents: I love everything about my Greenline except for the nickel-plated keys. The plating on the Ab key started showing visible wear within 6 months, and the plating has continued to wear off. It's been the worst one, but other keys have also lost much of their plating. I've owned it for about 3 years now. When I get it overhauled, I plan to have the keys silver plated. Unless Buffet has fixed this problem on the nickel-plated keys, I'd recommend spending the extra for silver-plating. BTW Buffet has denied there is a problem, but many others here and on the klarinet list have also reported having the problem.
Kathy
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Author: Beacea
Date: 2001-08-23 20:53
My 2 Cents as well - I have nickel plated keys, and after six months there is wear. On the issue of fit - I've had mine know for a year, so that is the humid summer and dry winters - fits together perfect every time.
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