 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-08-15 14:18
We have a nearly sixteen-year-old daughter who will be a junior in high school. She has been taking piano lessons for years and plays the violin in her school orchestra.
After a summer's hiatus from her piano lessons and practicing, she has apparently told her mother that she doesn't want to take any more lessons. Her rationale, as I have heard second-hand, is that she doesn't care for the piano teacher, she doesn't like practicing, she doesn't want to become a professional pianist, doesn't plan to continue with piano in college and she thinks we are wasting our money on the lessons. She also feels that if she ever decides to pick it up again in the future, she can teach herself. Well, the lessons were never intended to turn her into a professional unless she chose to do so, and whether she continues in college is, in my opinion, her choice, but I certainly want her to continue through high school. And how the money is spent is not her concern, but that of my wife and me; besides, I would rather spend the money on lessons than feel we wasted money on the piano.
As far as her piano teacher is concerned, I have not sat in on the lessons to see what they are like, but I do know that the teacher is not mean, but more on the shy side. It does seem, though, that our daughter has been working on the same music for months and months.
I would like some advice from you parents, teachers and maybe even you music students. My first inclination is tell her that another teacher may make the lessons and music more interesting, so we will get another teacher and expect her to continue for a while yet--at least long enough to see if the new teacher works out. Is this a good approach? Is there a better one? Is it unreasonable to expect her to continue her lessons through high school? (I think it will be something she can use for the rest of her life.) Should we just let her quit and turn the piano into a lamp? Should we tell her that, if (and only if) she continues her lessons through high school, we will give her the piano when she eventually gets her own place? (Need to discuss that with wife.) Any other advice?
(For all you youngsters out there, raising kids is not always fun and rarely easy. May you have the same experience some day. Then, you will begin to appreciate your parents and what they went through.)
(BTW, anyone willing to discuss other, non-music-related parenting concerns can contact me by email.)
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Author: William
Date: 2001-08-15 14:51
I have talked with many adult piano players that told me they were forced to take piano lessons and are now grateful that they were. I also went through the same thing with my daughter. We finally gave in and let her quit with the understanding that she join the school band--which she did and learned to play the clarinet very well. However, at a ripe old age of 27 and in the University of Wisconsin School of Education, she now wishes that she had continued her piano lessons (and I wish that I had not "given in" a few years ago). At sixteen, young adults must be allowed to make some decisions for themselves--with our adult approval (and ultimate "veto power"), but perhaps this is one that she is not yet "grown up" enough to make with proper perspective. We adults call it hindsight--the "if only I had known" syndrom of finally realizing that we made a really big mistake and "blew" a life altering golden opportunity. My recommendation is for her to continue lessons until 18, when she will be a "free" adult to make every decision for herself--and also take all the blame for her wrong choices. Like many of the clarinetists of this board, she may decide to resume her piano career at a later time in life after a long layoff. Good luck with whatever decision you make--and for you, good clarineting!!
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Author: jan
Date: 2001-08-15 15:13
at the risk of having others disagree with me, i will tell you what i think.
yes, there are some things in life where parents need and should make the decisions despite what the teenager thinks. and there are also some decisions a teenager should be able to make for themselves and i think taking music lessons is one a 16 yr old can decide.
if she is told she HAS to take lessons i dont think her heart & soul will really be into it. i think one needs to be passionate about and love what they are doing. if she doesnt want to be there her mind wont be there either.
my guess is that shes burned out at the moment and if you let her make her own decision about this she will come back to it when she has decided to do it for her and not for others.
sorry i dont agree to make her continue.
jan
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2001-08-15 15:14
Don, take a look at what you have written: "...she has apparently told her mother that she doesn't want to take any more lessons. Her rationale, as I have heard second-hand, ..".Firstly, IMHO you need to get involved personally--not second hand--not as "I have heard second hand" --- but have a face to face with your daughter. There may be much more behind this lack of interest in music than shows on the surface. As one who was "pushed" to take lessons (with the resultant rebellious attitude which developed) just remember " a soft answer turneth away wrath."
Bob A
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-15 15:27
Even if she does not continue to take lessons, she can still continue to play (i.e. keep the piano and get her music she likes). Right now she may be bored or burned out. Look at how long she has been taking lessons and think about whether a break is in order.
Perhaps talk to her teacher if boredom or burnout is the issue.
Maybe the time has come for a teacher of greater ability who will challenge her more.
I agree that you should talk directly with your daughter and see if there is moe than meets the eye.
Look at her general ability level. If she plays well enough to enjoy it and plans to play only for her own enjoyment, then perhaps she has had enough formal lessons.
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2001-08-15 15:32
Don,
Here's my .02: I started Clarinet when I was 9 then promply declared I wanted to quit at 12. I thought 3 years was enough and I was fed up with still sounding like an amature. (There's 12 year old thinking for you). My mom refused to let me quit but made a deal. If I stuck with it 2 more years and still hated it then I could quit. So it didn't seem like enternity and I thought it was a good bargain. Well, 2 years came and went and I didn't want to quit. I am SOOO greatful my mom's stubborness over powered mine. She may not have been my friend at those momements but she was MOM! Thank goodness.
It sounds like your daughter's teacher is fine but sometimes a person needs a new point of view to be re-motivated. Maybe a 'nice' teacher isn't what she needs right now. Try someone spirited and inspirational!
Either way, good luck to you.
P.S. I agree with Bob, find out from her and get involved.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-15 16:02
Don, I am a parent of 3, & I was a "quitter" at 16 ... having much the same attitude as your daughter. I NEVER SUFFERED by stopping my play; I KNEW I would PLAY it up AGAIN some day. I went on to things that DID really "work for me". NOW, all my kids play instruments, one plays Piano & Clarinet. BUT, they all play of their own free will.
My father had a rule, that I continue. "You want private lessons, you have to practice." Beyond that we have no rules, except that School requirements for Band and/or Orchestra must be honored at all times.
When a kid wants out, they should be allowed to OPT OUT, rovided that they fully understand the consequences.
At 16, I fully understood the consequences. I really did think my father's money was better spent elsewhere. No one could have been the better judge than I as to that as I simply DID NOT WANT TO PLAY the Clarinet any longer at that time.
Best,
mw
PS - Every kid has a different situation & thatg situation needs to be reviewed. My son doesn't show any _tremendoust_ amount of musical talent. He does quite well though, and REALLY does enjoy himself. he is very willing. I have a daughter who is very talented. She makes very good grades at school, being in advanced placement courses for english, math & science. She is a different story. If she ever quits, it would be a shame IMO. If she tried to do that, I would explain to her just what she "has going for herself" at the present time. I would tell her that success in something is very much like the expression "A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush".
PPS - That daughter does argue a lot with me. She'll be 16 in October. I never worry about her --- I know she would make a great Trial Attorney !
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2001-08-15 16:35
My "second-hand" comment was not because I don't want to be directly involved (although I wish some problems would work themselves out), but because my wife told me about this late last night and I wanted to get my head together and get some opinions before I broached the subject with our daughter.
Regarding the teacher, she (the teacher) herself suggested last year that our daughter might be better off with a teacher that could take her further. And maybe part of the problem is that her current teacher is too reserved and self-conscious. I'm of the current opinion that I should try to convince her to give another teacher a try before calling it quits.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-08-15 18:27
I see both sides, considering I quit piano lessons because my teacher was moving too fast (Triple-hand-over-hand arpeggio less than a year into lesons?). I regret it now, but I would suggest that if one of the reasons is that she doesn't like her lessons instructor, find another one!! See if she likes it after then. Tell her that piano is tricky to stick with, but mot people would rather they did.
It's her call whether she wants to be good. You can't force it. The least you can do is sit in at a lesson.
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Author: Laurie
Date: 2001-08-15 19:10
Hello -
I know your post was inteded for parents, but can i offer my view ? I'm 16, and like your daughter am a musician. I play clarinet, flute, sax and well, at one point Piano.
I took piano lessons for about 2 years before I quit. I couldn't stand my teacher anymore. She wouldn't let me advance.. I spent 1/2 the year doing the same thing. My teacher was dry, boring, and just I dunno. I never felt the love for the piano. After discussing with my parents and them sitting in on a lesson with me, they agreed to let me drop it, and just play clarinet. While I do some days regret quitting piano ( theory would be a lot easier now ! ) I never think that I made a wrong turn - I'll never forget dredding piano lessons, coming out crying and just hating them.
Teachers make a difference. I switched my clarient teachers this year. I considered dropping lessons all together actually. My old teacher never had a positive comment. Never a good job, or that was good. After lessons, I felt like such a disappointment. No matter how much I practiced, i could never appease him. I ended up talking to my band director and he sugged another teacher. She's totally opposite of my old teacher. We get along great and I love lessons. I look forward to them acutally ! Possibly a new teacher might make a difference.
How is your daughter's schedule? Let me tell you Jr. year of High School is the most stressful and hardest year. Is she involved in many after school activities - Are her classes difficult ? Is she an athlete ? Don't forget that she has to take SAT's and start looking at colleges. This year -between all my school work, AP classes, auditions, bands and responsibilities I had, I had no time. I didn't have the time i needed to practice, or to study. I had to quit playing varsity basketball - even with that I was still stressed out. She has to have some fun too !
If you push your daughter to play piano, she will probably protest and dislike it. We're teenagers, We're rebellous. You said your daughter plays violin - Does she take violin lessons ? Why not suggest taking private violin lessons ? Sit down, and talk it out with her. Find out what is causing her not to want to play. Mabye it's just a phase or change she's going through. - Anyways - Best of luck.
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Author: drew
Date: 2001-08-15 19:42
Don,
I'd recommend making a "contract" with your daughter; select a new teacher (let your daughter have some input on the decision) and keep the lessons and practice going for some period of time (6~12 months). At the end of the contract, you can "renegotiate" as necessary. It is important to give young people a voice and the opportunity to make commitments. Once you reach the end of the contract period, you'll both know the right direction to go...
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-08-15 21:01
I would try the contract idea. I tend to set realistic goals (practicing x amount, etc.) and often include a reward. This works well with my 16 yo, as long as well discuss and reach an agreement.
She will likely regret quiting. Also, you may want to explore what else is changing in her life, sometimes you can catch em before they start a slide...I caught mine before too much damage occurred this Spring.
A new teacher sounds needed (same piece forever, oh ick) and discuss learning other styles. One of my sons went to jazz/rock bass playing and began to learn to sing pop/rock. Then he decided he wanted to be in concert band, too.
Parenting is not for cowards.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-08-15 21:44
First, may I say, that my only qualification for discussing children is that I was once one myself.
Secondly, as a hack pianist, training with a rigorous instructor who concentrates on technical proficiency without harmonic content can really suck the life out of the music.
{She's keeping the violin, no matta what... right? Never sell off the violin, even if it inhabits the closet for awhile.}
Any boys in the picture? Sorry, this curtails many a career outside of the convent.
People appreciate the things for which they must pay.
To the point of being presumptuous, let me say that the design of the human animal seems to include an incorrigible stage, so that the parents gladly chuck the little *8!ts out when they're old enough to reproduce.
And thereby propogate the species, Geddit?
If you care to test the waters, see if the following phrase illicits any revolt.
"The buyer for the piano is coming next weekend. Your mother and I always
wanted a three week cruise, and now we can afford it."
Onna flip side, if she's pursuing the Violin, then she has concentrated her study.
As a music major, she will be forced onto the keyboard as part of the curriculum.
Dude, we feel your pain...
anji
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Author: Meri
Date: 2001-08-15 22:02
Let her quit the lessons, *but* encourage her to seek opportunities to use her piano skills. Has she considered being an accompanist for the school's choir or chamber ensembles? (not necessarily classical) She might even make some money doing this too. She could also look for opportunities to play, such as schools and senior's residences. Encourage her to find some music she'd like to work on but doesn't currently have the time to because of lesson material. She's probably at a stage where she can play most of the piano literature anyway. Encourage her to arrange a concert, perhaps with some of her other music friends.
Meri
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Author: Meri
Date: 2001-08-15 23:06
Also, you might discuss the possibility of changing teachers, and letting her take lessons on an occasional or "as needed" basis. This could work if she has a lot of self-discipline, which I'm guessing she does.
Meri
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2001-08-16 02:47
I'm 16 too and I take piano lessons. I play clarinet and violin also. One of the things that I don't get out of piano is contact with other players. You can't play piano in a band or orchestra (well, sometimes there's a part or you're a soloist but it's rare). Just sitting, playing the piano alone, can become dull. Maybe she could play chamber music with someone or four hands piano. It would give her new music and someone to play with, which is a lot more interesting than always being alone. High schoolers are usually social. Maybe some ensemble playing could brighten the picture a little bit. And do look for another teacher, her current one is clearly missing something.
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-08-16 04:45
It is very difficult to get a 16 year old to do anything he/ she does not want to do! (And it got no better when he turned 17!)
My son is THE music geek. He'll take any lesson I'll pay for, play any instrument I'll buy. He presently plays clarinet, bass clarinet, piano and is after me to get him an alto sax. He also sings in select choir at school and the senior choir at church. He practices 3 hours a day without complaint or being asked. He is the perfect musical kid.
What he won't do is sports. In an effort to turn out a well rounded individual, and in recognition that my wife and I have no interest in sports and have no wish to pass on our lack of interest, we have tried to interest him. Nothing! Finally we managed to capitalize on a family interest in boating to get him interested in swimming and kayaking. He swims laps against his former swimming teacher (and keeps up), he'll kayak for miles. He even has his lifeguard cert and is guarding for the second summer. We suggested he go out for either swimming team or crew (rowing) at school, but he will have nothing to do with either. We gave up and decided to be happy with the person he is.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-08-17 01:59
Jim: Sounds like me!!! Except I couldn't stick with the piano. I still play, but without advancing and no lessons. I plan to stay that way; it keeps me content.
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Author: Jessica
Date: 2001-08-17 02:08
I believe wether or not to make her continue has a lot to do with the individual person. I know when I was younger my parents tried to get me to learn piano (BTW, I'm 15) & I'm *already* kicking myself for not taking them up on the offer. On the other hand, when I was younger my parents *didn't* encourage me to take clarinet lessons & I am also regretting that now... so talk to your daughter and find out first hand how she feels about it.
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