 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: BigChief44
Date: 2026-04-02 07:16
Hey guys!
I have a vintage kohlert albert clarinet in which the two of the rods that are attached to the left pinky keys with the rollers are completely stripped and I'm debating destroying the rollers and just making new rods and rollers for this.
However I took a rod out of the right hand pinky keys just to see what i'm working with in terms of what tap and die I would need and I'm measuring m1.6x0.45. Now either i'm super **** at measuring or this clarinet uses some really proprietary thread sizes that no one has these days.
How I might go on about this is to make a tiny brass rod in which I will tap, then solder in the spot where the old threads are and just make a new rod to match that since my taps aren't long enough to go through the existing rod hole on the key to the threads. There's VERY little room to solder in a threaded bushing but that's the only fix that comes to mind.
How would you guys go on about this?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2026-04-02 12:23
>> However I took a rod out of the right hand pinky keys just to see what i'm working with in terms of what tap and die I would need and I'm measuring m1.6x0.45. <<
I assume you mean from right hand key rollers that the clarinet also has? If you mean from the keys themselves... rollers often have smaller/different size rods and threads from the key hinges.
That is an unusual thread but some instruments, especially old ones, sometimes had very unusual threads. Not only weird diameters, but very fine or coarse for the diameter.
Are you sure it's M1.6x0.45mm? How positive are you with your measuring?
Is it possible it's significantly worn?
That thread really doesn't exist anymore, but there might be a few ways around it...
M1.7x0.45mm is an extremely obscure thread that does exist, if you can find it, and your thread might even be that, just worn. Even if it's not, the M1.7 thread might just fit... unless the rod itself is 1.6mm? Then enlarging by just 0.1mm shouldn't be an issue.
If you get a split die you can slightly reduce the diameter and maybe get close to 1.6mm, which would likely work well enough, especially on a roller where the threads don't even need to be particularly strong.
A close but much more common alternative is a 1-56 inch thread. This is not too difficult to find. It's equivalent to M1.85x0.45mm. You could reduce a split die to get closer, not quite to 1.6mm though. Some old European clarinets actually had inch size threads.
Another option is to check an M1.6x0.35mm thread.... very carefully. Some rollers especially have very short threads so this makes less difference. It might grip well enough as is.
So it all depends on the actual measurements and the condition of the threads.
You could also slightly enlarge the rod, if the roller and key can allow it, and in that case I'd probably use the 1-56 size. You'd only have to enlarge it by 0.2mm at most (instrument threads are nearly always under sized anyway). If it measures 1.6mm right now, it's very likely something else that is under sized and/or worn, so it's even a smaller difference.
>> since my taps aren't long enough to go through the existing rod hole on the key to the threads. <<
It's possible to get reduced shank taps so they can pass through the threaded hole, but could be tricky especially at these sizes.
It might be possible to get away with a one-off using a tap made from tool steel. Since the threads can have a relatively thin grip in this case it's a very small difference and could work.
Post Edited (2026-04-02 16:47)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BigChief44
Date: 2026-04-02 16:14
When I get home later I'll have to re measure one of the left pinky roller rods I think I can get one of them out.
Yes I did take these measurements from the right hand pinky rollers and just assumed they used the same for both. I'll Chek later
I'm like 75% positive I got the right measurement the rod doesn't fit in my m1. 6x0.3 die but maybe I should try an M1.7 that I gotta order
Strange conundrum I have here I've never encountered this but I don't often see horns like this
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2026-04-02 17:01
Hmm... I assume you got 0.45mm from a thread gauge?
M1.6 with different pitches won't fit into the M1.6x0.3mm die too.
So it could be M1.6 with a different pitch or a worn larger diameter maybe (though M1.7x0.3mm is very non-standard too, the pitch for M1.7 is usually 0.35mm and less commonly 0.2mm and 0.25mm).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BigChief44
Date: 2026-04-02 18:08
Yeah I got the 0.45 from a pitch gauge and the diameter of the threads runs 1.58mm.
My mistake earlier I meant to say I tried it in my m1.6x0.35 die not 0.3 and it just didn't go in even a bit. Super super strange
This is a personal project clarinet so I don't have a customer to take care of but still this thing plays pretty darn well on its shitty pads I figure I'll get this thing in tip top shape
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-04-02 21:05
What diameter are the rod screws themselves?
If they're 2mm, then you can open up the threads to M2x0.4 with a 1.6mm drill.
Or if you want to use a slightly larger thread, M1.7x0.3 (or it could be M1.7x0.35) which is what Buffet and Yamaha use on their clarinet rod screws and sax roller screws. Marigaux oboes and cors use 1.9mm diameter rod screws for the cross keys and possibly an M1.8x0.35 or 0.4 thread.
Either way, there's no harm in using a screw diameter and thread size that's more readily available to what it once had if originals are next to impossible to find.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BigChief44
Date: 2026-04-03 01:35
Attachment: 1.jpg (527k)
Attachment: 2.jpg (584k)
Attachment: 3.jpg (546k)
Attachment: 4.jpg (589k)
Attachment: 5.jpg (578k)
Here are all the images I did measure the thread size incorrectly it's actually 1.53mm and the rod size is 1.80mm.
Take a look at these images please let me know what y'alls think!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-04-03 02:48
Yamaha and Heckel bassoon roller screws are that diameter - although the threads may be larger than 1.53mm wide.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
