 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed
Date: 2025-08-28 01:47
From time to time I have tried Legere reeds. Why is it that they seem to be FAR more affected by the position on the mouthpiece than a cane reed? If I move a cane reed up or down or side to side, I will notice some difference in sound or response. With the synthetic, the slightest adjustment to position, literally like a hair or fraction of a mm, can make the reed play drastically different for me. There are times when I barely move it and it can go from playing fairly well to almost unplayable or vice versa.
Years ago when I tried playing them in some performance settings I fiddled at home to find the position for the best response and sound and then just left it on the mouthpiece out of concern that I might not be able to find that same spot if I took it off.
Why is this the case with synthetics?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-08-28 02:24
Ed wrote:
> From time to time I have tried Legere reeds. Why is it that
> they seem to be FAR more affected by the position on the
> mouthpiece than a cane reed? If I move a cane reed up or down
> or side to side, I will notice some difference in sound or
> response. With the synthetic, the slightest adjustment to
> position, literally like a hair or fraction of a mm, can make
> the reed play drastically different for me. There are times
> when I barely move it and it can go from playing fairly well to
> almost unplayable or vice versa.
I'm going to guess, based on my own experiences with Legeres, that part of the answer may be contained in your question. You position a cane reed off center or higher/lower because the reed's density structure and, therefore, its vibrancy isn't centered or its heart - the center of its resistance - is too low or too high. You compensate by moving the reed. Synthetic reeds aren't, at least in theory shouldn't be, subject to that kind of inconsistency. It doesn't grow naturally, it's manufactured. So the sources of the reed's resistance *shouldn't* be off center, or too high or low. If the reed plays only "fairly well" when positioned in a way you consider standard, there's no real reason for it to improve by moving it. The fault is most likely in the specific run of the synthetic material itself, not in its distribution in the finished reed.
> Years ago when I tried playing them in some performance
> settings I fiddled at home to find the position for the best
> response and sound and then just left it on the mouthpiece out
> of concern that I might not be able to find that same spot if I
> took it off.
I resorted to the same tactic. Especially since the translucent quality of the material made it hard for me to see where the reed tip was with respect to the mouthpiece itself (especially the tip rail) unless I had very good light.
If my guess is even partly right, you're better off trading the reed back if you can and hoping for a reed from a different manufacturing run. It would be interesting to me to see the actual process of making Legeres and other synthetics to see how where (or if) the process could introduce inconsistencies of density (or thickness) similar to those of natural cane.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-08-28 03:35
My guess is the same answer for why the Legeres are the sizes that they are: thin (VERY very thin) up and down, WIDE for the European Signatures. Every bit of material and the tapers are contributing factors toward making them play as cane like as possible. So, yes, find THAT spot and leave it there.
Another factor that I've noticed is that when you do reposition or take off and put back on, you NEED TO MAKE SURE THE MOUTHPIECE (surfaces of reed contact) AND REED ARE WIPED DRY! It's perfectly fine for moisture to accumulate under the reed where it can and where it wants to....BUT, if there is ANY moisture under the reed as you put it in place, it will throw off the reed's IDEAL playing characteristics.
I leave mine on for full rehearsals, concerts, practice sessions. It really makes a big difference.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-08-28 03:52
I may be saying what Karl did in a different way (or not.)
While I don't think that the dimensions of a particular make of model of Legere reed for a particular instrument (e.g. French Cut for Bb/A clarinet) differ based on its strength, and rather, that the reed's strength is controlled by varying the formula of the polypropylene Legere uses for making each strength, what I will say it that for a given strength Legere, because of the uniformity of the material used to make reed, that we might expect to see very direct correlation between the resistance of that reed in spots with identical thickness.
And I'd guess that the resistance in other areas of the reed might very closely correlate with thickness.
A cane reed on the other hand, (i.e. and individual reed) has the variability that mother nature throws at it, and that two different spots of the same thickness, even within the same reed, might not exhibit as close a correlation with resistance as with the Legere.
(BTW Vandoren, for example, cuts all their reeds of a make/model/instrument (e.g. V12 for Eb clarinet) the same way, and lets their strength differences be determined by mother nature. It determines this strength by a machine puffing air on the reed (not unlike a Opthalmic Air Puff Tonometer Glaucoma machine) at a known pressure and distance and categorizing strength by hwow much deflection the reed makes in response.)
Mother nature may do "that thing that it does" to create variability (e.g. maybe placing more densely packed fibers) in one area of the reed than another such that for equal resistance in those two different locations, the thickness of the reed at those two points must be different.
(This, BTW is why I thumb my nose and machines that create cane reeds by following the topology of a reed with great play characteristics. This might work if the reed had uniformity like a Legere, and like one Legere to another. It doesn't.)
All this said, maybe given this less direct correlation between thickness and strength of a cane reed, that moving it the same amount as a Legere causes less difference in play.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2025-08-28 16:33
I have played only Legeres over ten years. And here are my advice:
-don't change between cane and syntethic. Play only plastic for an extensive time, weeks, months
-Try to find a mouthpiece and ligature that suits the reed not vice versa because plastic reeds are quite similar to each other. So it's the mp/lig combo that makes the desired sound, not the reed.
-Learn to produce the sound you want, don't expect it from your reed and mouthpiece.
-the rails of the mouthpiece should be wide. It's easier to put the reed straight to the table, which is essential with plastics
-The tip rail should be wide to give possibility to move the reed up and down to fine tune the hardness and brightness of the reed, which is essential to achieve the desired sound
-I prefer more open mp's with plastics than cane. Plastic reed needs more tension by embouchure than cane to achieve a livelier sound and to get more possibilities to form the sound you want
-My setup: Buffet RC Prestige clarinets, Gleichweit 11.7 mouthpiece, Ichimori Kodama 2 ligature, legere French cut 4.0 reeds.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Ed
Date: 2025-08-29 02:05
While I am still about as clueless about the effect of reed position, this thread has been helpful in some other ways.
Thanks Jarmo for your thoughts. I think you may be on to something there. I have a couple of mouthpieces where the Legeres seem to work a bit better and those have a slightly wider tip rail and are a bit more open than I usually play. I'll give that some time and see.
I also found that based on some comments Paul made years back, I tried a Luyben ligature that seems to work a bit better with them than my usual metal ones. (not sure if he still likes those or not)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2025-08-29 02:45
I’ve been working on “why” the Luyben works well, and though they are still among my favorites I think it may have more to do with ligatures that grab mostly at the left and right edges of the reed than material. Two other really effective ligatures are the Vientos Bambu Nova (without the plate) and the Harrison copy (Eb size). My favorite is the Rovner Van Gogh but the placement is even more critical than that of the reed.
I agree wholeheartedly with all said by Jarmo Hyvakko. Thanks so much for your informative post !!!!!
………… Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2025-08-29 06:51
Quote:
I’ve been working on “why” the Luyben works well, and though they are still among my favorites I think it may have more to do with ligatures that grab mostly at the left and right edges of the reed than material.
I was wondering the same. I thought that perhaps it holds the reeds somewhat more securely to the table. I suppose that cane "moves" or swells when wet and will hold or conform to the table differently. The Legere-Luyben combination may work differently as the synthetic is somewhat less "forgiving."
It may be like the way my repairman years back talked about different pads. Some pad materials are more forgiving in adjusting to the tone hole while a harder material like cork seals well, but does not conform to the hole in the same way.
I also considered that the Luyben may dampen certain overtones making a somewhat more pleasing sound. Maybe it is none of the above, but I guess the important part is that it seems to work and be a good combination.
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