 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-07-24 14:04
I have been playing violin pieces recently (Schubert/Beethoven/ Dvorak, others) and try to respect the upbow and downbow symbols. In other words, not really an accent, but a sort of natural, gravitational emphasis on the note. I can't really say that I make a difference between upbow and downbow, but I find this enriches my sense of phrasing. String players have more expressive parameters than we have: upbow/downbow, choosing to play the same note on different strings, speed of bowing, etc). But, we could get closer to their variety of playing. Actually, this is not my idea (it's too good to be mine!). I learned this when attending a course by the great oboist, John deLancie (of the Philadelphia Orchestra).
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-07-25 00:39
Interesting about playing the same note on different strings. Is that what the little + and o symbols mean?
I don't know what the audible effect of different strings would make to the sound of a note, but probably there is some, maybe due to the different diameters of different strings. Pianists sometimes make a point of using different, stronger vs weaker, fingers for notes too.
The analogy on clarinet would be the choice of different fingerings for a particular note. Different fingerings can certainly sound different in pitch or timbre, though usually in playing the effort is to minimize such things.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-07-25 01:57
This is why the Bach 'cello suite doesn't translate to woodwind instruments as there's the unison notes played on different strings and all the double stopping going on in that which stringed instruments can do for different tonal effects. It's a shame you can't produce the same sound on clarinet (or other single or double reed woodwinds) when inhaling as that would make these unison notes work.
And besides, I really can't stand hearing people banging on about the Bach 'cello suite as though it's the absolute pinnacle of bass clarinet music. It isn't.
The + and o can mean stopped or open strings (eg, an open D, A or E instead of a stopped one), or the o above a note is a harmonic, played by lightly touching the nodal point of an open or stopped string to make it sound an 8ve, 12th or two 8ves higher.
While starting a note with the heel of the bow will give a stronger down bow on violin, viola and 'cello compared to the weaker up bow (which is perfect for starting at ppp levels without any attack), that only applies to double bass using a Tourte bow (overhand grip) as opposed to a Simandl bow (underhand grip like a viol). In that case and opposite to Tourte bows, Simandl bows offer a stronger up bow than a down bow. Tourte bows are the most popular type of double bass bows in the UK with some players using Simandl bows alongside the regular Tourte bows in many UK orchestras.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-07-25 09:56
Old clarinet method books from the end of the 19th century do suggest different fingerings for the same note in order to obtain a different timbre. These days, different fingerings are usually for matters of intonation or getting round the instrument technically.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2025-07-25 12:35)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2025-07-26 05:03
Playing the same note with a different finger or on a different string on a violin family instrument is done to achieve a different tone color. For example, a melodic passage may sound more consistent if a string change is not introduced or a open string is avoided.
While bow direction certainly does matter, and we choose bowings that best fit our interpretation of a phrase, they aren't accents. A competent string player can make a passage work with any reasonable bowing, including starting a passage in reverse. However, as the bow is not equally balanced and the weight is biased towards the frog (where one holds the bow) and lighter at the tip, some articulations are best achieved in different parts of the bow, regardless of the direction it is moving. String players also have many exercises to train the bow hand to minimize the differences in sound between up and down bows, so that we can choose the most effective bowing for interpretive purposes, and not be limited by our technique (ideally).
There are also some basic axioms to bowing that apply a lot of the time, like "down beat, down bow" and "up beat, up bow," although even intermediate players learn very quickly that the "rules are meant to be broken."
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-07-26 13:32
gwie: Thank you for your very enlightening comments, gwie. Do you play both a string instrument and the clarinet? Such things are known to happen. I used the term: "natural accent" when speaking of upbow or downbow, but maybe "inflection" or "articulation" would have been more appropriate words. String players I have played chamber music with have told me that they like playing with wind instruments because it teaches them how to breathe; teaches them the importance of breath in playing. So it's give and take: we have something to learn from them, they have something to learn from us.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2025-07-26 19:05)
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