 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-02-12 18:05
I add cork grease to tenon corks whenever stiction can be detected during assembly. My reasoning is that extra rotational tension in the assembled instrument due to binding will affect the instrument's vibrational properties and thus its sound, typically by adding or accentuating some higher frequencies. Such changes are liable to be variable and unpredictable. Thus, I don't think greasing is only about preserving the tenon corks. Smooth assembly, smooth sound.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-02-12 18:42
Ermmm ...
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-02-12 19:38
Philip Caron wrote:
> I add cork grease to tenon corks whenever stiction can be
> detected during assembly. My reasoning is that extra
> rotational tension in the assembled instrument due to binding
> will affect the instrument's vibrational properties and thus
> its sound, typically by adding or accentuating some higher
> frequencies.
I think cork grease is needed because "extra rotational tension" as you assemble the instrument can lead to gripping and bending keys as you force the joint to move. "Smooth assembly, smooth sound" sounds like a way to make *you* feel better.
Is "stiction" a real word? I like it - an amalgamation of sticking and friction.
Karl
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Author: Jim Han
Date: 2025-02-12 21:59
Stiction is actually common in motorcycle world. Refers to pressure needed to put on handlebars sufficient to make the fork springs compress.
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-02-12 23:02
I've never thought about it to that level. I just want my instrument assembly to be smooth, no leaks from the corks, and have the corks last a long time.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren #3 reeds
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-02-13 00:18
I worked for a maker of automated grinding machines, where precise control over machine axes at slow or stopped speeds was needed. Stiction was a serious concern.
I appreciate the skepticism. I also appreciate other reasons for greasing tenon corks, such as avoiding pressure on keys, avoiding wear on corks, and so forth. However, I don't want any extraneous tension bound into the assembled instrument either.
Would one not hesitate to firmly attach the ends of a tightly tensioned spring to two adjacent sections of your instrument, such that it generates a constant, unrelieved rotational force between them during play? The best case would be that it wouldn't affect vibration of the body at all, but I can only imagine it would, and in an unbeneficial way.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2025-02-13 02:43
Stiction is also applied with bicycle shocks. Surface treatment is applied to the stanchions to reduce the effect. Also could be applied to static loads and the initial forces require to move them. Likely you know my opinion re cork grease, which is I don't use it . IMO if the cork was not sealing the clarinet would likely fall apart. Re tearing off corks when I was playing a lot, generally they would last about 15 years without cork grease. The bottom tenon cork on my Eb which saw a lot of playing in the day is now 30 years old. I just bought an Lx the tenon's were gammed with decades of muck, which I would define as a grinding paste as it had decades of grit in there. Magnificent horn. No one would recommend this. But this is what happens, the human factor.
I would rather have the tenon corks as a frangible asset, than have a grinding paste. Likely we would agree that the cork grease should be cleaned off after each playing.
Some would argue that the insertion of a metal would assist with resonance.
Another argument may be that some cork greases contain solvent that weaken the adhesive, all food for thought...
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-02-13 03:04
I think this is called overthinking.
Pardon me if this sounds rude, but try walking into a professional orchestra and suggesting this to the players there and see what the reaction is.
We grease tenon corks to ease assembly of the instrument - that's it. Grease some joints too much and you will have issues. There needs to be a certain degree of 'bite' in order to adjust tuning in a measured way. Over grease the middle joint and that may rotate just when you don't need it to!
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2025-02-13 03:08
Likely no one would ask did I cork grease today😬 Nor care. I could imagine the conversation though.😬 As with lots of things there a variety of opinions. Happy to hear your thoughts😬
Post Edited (2025-02-13 06:22)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-02-13 06:04
"try walking into a professional orchestra and suggesting this to the players there and see what the reaction is."
This page is probably as close as I'll get!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-02-13 06:41
Over 50 years ago I actually had the bottom section of my clarinet fall to the floor onstage during a concert because I had used too much grease on a middle tenon cork that was slightly too loose and should have been replaced.
I learned to be more careful of over-greasing the middle tenon and to hold the clarinet in my right hand with my thumb under the thumb rest during multi-measure rests.
Karl
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2025-02-13 08:14
Ha ha exactly right. Just to demonstrate some more avoidant behaviour I should slap a data logging torque tool on to my Barrell to see the forces pre and post cork grease😬
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Author: symphony1010
Date: 2025-02-13 13:02
At least this thread introduced me to the word stiction which I had never met before.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-13 21:00
Philip Caron wrote:
> Dan, LOL. "use ear wax, it will make your sound clearer and
> louder."
..or behind the ear grease to (no joke, I do it every time I assemble the instrument, and at least remember) to coat the G#/D# and F/C levers to facilitate sliding down, respectively, to the F#/C# and E/B levers should the pinky requirements of the music warrant such slides.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2025-02-14 04:28
Just when I thought I'd heard it all. This place never fails to amuse.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-02-14 09:33
Again, from the SOTW:
What is cork grease made out of?
https://www.saxontheweb.net/threads/what-is-cork-grease-made-out-of.122783/
To save yourself from reading this long, rather boring thread, the only hilarious response (imo) is from “B Flat”, #26, wherein he states:
“I make my own from ear wax and navel fluff.
I like to apply it directly from the source, first I jam the neck cork into my ear and twist counter clockwise before removing and inserting into navel with a clockwise motion.”
Yep. gotta hand it to those guys on the SOTW...(imo) they sure have a great sense of humor!
Post Edited (2025-02-14 18:19)
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Author: Burt
Date: 2025-02-14 20:41
I can't believe that cork grease has anything to do with the clarinet's sound. The wood (or ebonite or whatever) doesn't vibrate. The only purpose of cork grease is to protect the cork from being damaged when assembling/disassembling.
On my saxes, I use vaseline, which would presumably harm wood.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-02-15 00:21
Vaseline damages the adhesive as it's petroleum based.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-02-15 03:56
Burt, I feel confident in stating that the entire thread was a spoof and a number of players simply joined in to come up with their "variations". Quite a few humorous responses were added making for great fun.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2025-02-16 01:17
And when you get your first mouthpiece with those rubber rings in the joint you start to put cork grease inside the barrel instead of the mouthpiece!
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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