 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-05 03:25
Sure, in its simplest form the clarinet is a pipe with holes, where covering those holes with fingers (or not) elongates (or shortens) the length that air travels through the mouthpiece before it sees daylight again.
But once we get beyond C6 ![[C6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c6.gif) and the left pointer finger is taken off the instrument, the rationale behind fingerings seems to become, I want to say, "less clear cut" if not also perhaps backed by rationale I just don't understand.
By way of pure example, I was searching the other day for a fingering for Eb6 ![[Eb6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/eb6.gif) that would not tie up my right hand middle finger on the sliver key and was not flat like the right hand ring finger alternative often is (for me), and referred to Mr. Charette's fingering guide: an unsung hero IMHO and quite comprehensive guide https://www.wfg.woodwind.org/clarinet/ .
Clicking the link to the "Alternate Fingering Chart for Boehm-System Clarinet" selection and looking up Eb6 I came across a fingering that worked really well for me that was essentially like a standard throat Bb4, but where the left thumb covered the register key hole: the standard throat Bb4 of course keeping this hole open.
This anecdote brings me to my question about how some particularly high note fingerings came to be. Was it pure luck of people trying things, or perhaps was there some, say, harmonics rationale behind how some of these particularly lower and upper altissimo fingers came to be that perhaps has solid rationale, but that is simply beyond my knowledge.
Still more, I'm to understand that us Bb/A clarinet players "ain't seen nothing" compared to the arsenal of fingers that Eb players develop to address intonation and fingering challenges.
TIA
Post Edited (2025-02-05 22:33)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-02-05 04:09
"the left thumb covered the register key hole"
Doesn't the register key rather exclusively cover the register key hole?
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-05 04:20
Philip Caron wrote:
> "the left thumb covered the register key hole"
>
> Doesn't the register key rather exclusively cover the register
> key hole?
The hole i refer to is the one a player would normally cover in isolation of other holes or levers to go from an open G to the F immediately below it.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-02-05 09:48
SecondTry wrote:
"Sure, in its simplest form the clarinet is a pipe with holes, where covering those holes with fingers (or not) elongates (or shortens) the length that air travels through the mouthpiece before it sees daylight again."
And...
"This anecdote brings me to my question about how some particularly high note fingerings came to be. Was it pure luck of people trying things, or perhaps was there some, say, harmonics rationale behind how some of these particularly lower and upper altissimo fingers came to be that perhaps has solid rationale, but that is simply beyond my knowledge."
First of all, I don't think I need to convey to any of you that the majority of the members of this BB are a he** of a lot smarter than I am. So, please take with a huge grain of salt whatever I am about to write.
"A pipe with holes"...to me, the reason there are so many different alternate fingerings for the same note is primarily because not all "pipes" are created equal. Two main differences come to my mind; 1st) The bore diameter. Perhaps the alternate fingering on a 0.563" bore may not work very well on a 0.583" bore. 2nd) There are two types of bores...cylindrical and poly-cylindrical. Perhaps even having the same internal bore dimensions, what works well with a cylindrical bore may not work well with a poly-cylindrical bore.
The "pipe", to me, includes the barrel and mouthpiece combo which, I believe, can certainly affect tuning and tone color. With so many individual parts to take into consideration, it's no wonder to me that there are 6 different alternate fingerings for b4. Hence, a lot of experimentation needs to take place.
Even the pads can make a difference. I listened to a YouTube demo of the Backun Alpha recently. The player purposely played a regular thumb/first finger throat Bb4 and then added alternate fingering. Oh my...the tone level sounded twice as loud to my ears and the clarity also improved immensely to me. Recently, on my Vito Classic, when I played the regular thumb/first finger throat Bb4, when I added alternate right hand fingerings, I was surprised that the original tone did not change at all. I found that to be quite interesting. (Perhaps I simply didn't put down the correct right hand alternate fingerings.)
I found a few articles on clarinet alternate fingers which you might find interesting. What amazed me was the larger amount of alternate fingerings other woodwind instrument players have to learn.
Here they are:
Why do I need to use alternate fingerings?
https://bretpimentel.com/why-do-instruments-have-alternate-fingerings/
Selecting alternate fingerings
https://bretpimentel.com/selecting-alternate-fingerings/
Just my opinions.
Post Edited (2025-02-05 12:29)
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2025-02-05 11:33
I think we have left out a component. The clarinet is a stopped pipe. Unlike flute, which is open at both ends clarinet is sealed by the mouth at one end and is sort of a cylinder. As a consequence it overblows a twelfth. There are also harmonics that are in tune and out of tune. Add in to the mix that different clarinets have different tunining and you end up with a bit of a mess😀
The uni of NSW has a research paper on the virtual flute and I think one also on clarinet.It provides every possible permutation of fingering. The reality some work and some don't. As you would know there are a whack of fingering charts out there. As is often the case you look for what works.
People choose dependent upon their needs
Tuning
Tone
Blending
Getting around a mechanical problem
What comes next
What came before
Etc
Surviving😀
As you mention Eb is a great example. Top E is traditionally played with the bis key. Out of the box that top E on my Eb is grossly flat so even D to E trills are painful. I have re tuned the E so it is slightly sharp withe the Bis key down. You also have to deal with flutes and picolos that can go sharp. You can hold the bis key down for the F etc. I go to the short F an F# with either one or two side keys dependent upon the reed, day, time, colour of the sunset....Because I find mechanically it allows me to get around more problems. All this will change with player, reed, horn other players etc, etc ....
You will probably hear a squillion variations to the same problem. The D below the E is usually sharp with the Eb key down.......
Post Edited (2025-02-05 12:21)
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2025-02-05 12:26
crazyclari,
Good catch! Yes, the clarinet is a closed or stopped pipe at one end.
And, yes, people choose a particular alternate fingering dependent upon their needs.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-02-05 18:10
The altissimo D#/Eb with the Sp.Th. oxx|oxoAb/Eb fingering is always going to be flat on all clarinets with standard keywork as it's a forked fingering in that there's a tonehole closed immediately below the tonehole where the note issues directly from, thereby causing more resistance and in the case of altissimo D#/Eb, making it flat.
Using the slightly more awkward oxx|xo/oAb/Eb fingering offers the correct and fully vented venting for this note (as it does with B and F# using the 'sliver' key).
Unless your clarinet is fitted with the Acton vent (eg. many but not all B&H 1010s, reform Boehms and several German bore Boehm systems), you can use the oxx|oxoAb/Eb fingering for altissimo D#/Eb as the Acton vent (operated by RH1) compensates for RH2 being closed.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2025-02-06 13:19
Thats one of the articles. The one I was thinking of has literally every fingering for a flute/clarinet generated by a computer program and it's place in the harmonic series with the corresponding harmonic placement and it's effect in the tuning. I have previously downloaded the articles. I will see if I can find it tomorrow. I met the guy at an ergonomics conference, smart guy. There's a stack of stuff there.
.
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Author: musica
Date: 2025-02-06 18:33
Searching for a suitable fingering for high Eb that responds well to a ppp
dynamic marking.. Suggestions please…
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-06 19:40
musica wrote:
> Searching for a suitable fingering for high Eb that responds
> well to a ppp
> dynamic marking.. Suggestions please…
Hi Kathleen:
If you refer to the great fingering charts I mentioned above of the board's moderator, Mr. Charette, specifically this one:
https://www.wfg.woodwind.org/clarinet/cl_alt_3.html
the last entry for Eb6 has a pp suggestion from the late Glenn Kantor: a force of this bboard for many years, may he rest in peace.
I hope it, or perhaps some other one listed works well for you.
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Author: musica
Date: 2025-02-07 00:13
Thanks will give it a go on Tchaikovsky Romeo &
Juliette Fantasy opening sections .
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-02-07 09:44
Considering that particular note - altissimmo D#/Eb - I can think of 6 fingerings that are ones I use regularly on the Bb clarinet. On the Eb? the same 6 fingerings come to mind. I don't experience an undue level of flatness in the top register (on eefer), but my Bb fingerings cover a range from "a bit low in pitch" to "quite high in pitch" so my "high fingerings" are probably used more on Eb.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2025-02-20 00:53
One of the pleasures of playing the bass clarinet (for this player) is the ease with which altissimo notes can be voiced. On soprano I always found that notes above G6 were often difficult to play and seemed to be very reed-dependent and more a matter of embouchure and fingering than proper voicing.
I moved over to playing tenor sax for quite a few years and with the help of a book by David Liebman I learned how to use variations in the oral cavity to produce overtones in the altissimo range.
An invitation to play in a pit band led to the bass clarinet becoming my main instrument. As I got the hang of it I started working on the extended range and found that with my experience on tenor, voicing was much easier with the larger bass mouthpiece. I began to find that the altissimo register was quite flexible, discovering alternate fingerings almost intuitively.
Lately I've been working on Schubert's "Arpeggione Sonata", clarinet transcription by Jerry Kirkbride. As written, the last phrase of the first movement is a two octave arpeggio starting on low B, followed by high D, ending on altissimo F#, and dropping to a diminuendo clarion B held for nine beats, followed by two quarter notes, clarion A# and B, separated by rests. I was listening to a cello recording of the sonata and I noticed that he followed the altissimo F# with a B6 instead of the clarion B5. Aha – a fourth! So the next time I played that altissimo F# I followed with voiced a B6. An effortless, clear, secure sound and no change of fingering needed. I found this very satisfying.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2025-02-21 12:25
Press the C key instead of Eb key with your little finger! Surprise: high Eb gets sharper. Warning: doesn't come out of the instrument so easily. And doesn't come out at all, if you hold the bell between your knees, while playing sitting down!
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2025-02-22 14:15
The late, great British clarinet player Jack Brymer, wrote in one of his books something to the effect 'To be a clarinet player is to be an inventor of clarinet fingerings.' I didn't understand what he meant when I first read that but I certainly do now.
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The Clarinet Pages
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