 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GenericClarinet129
Date: 2024-10-21 03:37
I went to my local Music and Arts today to try out the Backun Protege in grenadilla, a clarinet that I am considering buying. I generally dislike M&A, but they are the only music store near me. I brought the clarinet into one of their practice rooms and began playing. Many things felt off. Some of the pads were not sealing, many of the notes were not coming out, and it was much, much more resistant than anything I had ever played before. I then looked at the back of the instrument where the serial numbers are shown, and I saw that it was stamped with "Designed in Canada, Made in China" on the barrel, bell, and both joints. I am almost 100% sure that Proteges are supposed to say "Made in Canada." At first I suspected that they had given me the wrong instrument, but the barrel was the usual New Traditional, the top joint had the Backun Protege logo, and the bottom joint and barrel both had the Backun logo and design. I asked a worker there about it, but he did not know what it was and seemed to know almost nothing about clarinets in general, as is standard for M&A. Does anybody have an idea about what this could have been?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-10-21 08:26
>> I am almost 100% sure that Proteges are supposed to say "Made in Canada." <<
Why?
I don't know whether it was real or fake, but I've never seen fake clarinets with "Made in China" written on them. In a way that makes it less likely to be fake, and the same for other things you described (e.g. having that written on all the parts), though not impossible.
Check with Backun. I don't see anywhere that this model is made in Canada, or in China for that matter. Many companies make things in China now, some Buffet clarinets are made there too.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-10-21 10:07
The online shops here in Europe all state that " The body, barrel and bell of the Backun Prodege are made in Canada",which is rather an oddly selective statement regarding origins of manufacture. But even if the key work is made and the instrument assembled in China, I can't see how " Made in China" is going to get printed on the wooden parts if in fact those are made in Canada.
If does indeed seem a bit fishy.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-10-21 17:18
I have no info on the instrument. I would like to offer that while I also would prefer finding a shop where I could try an instrument, they are becoming few and far between. It might be preferable to get an instrument on trial from somewhere like Kessler where it would be set up to play. It is incredibly frustrating to try an instrument that is leaking and not set up. There is no way to actually evaluate what you are playing.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-10-21 17:56
I regularly service a Protege and while it may have maple leaves and 'Made in Canada' on it, the general build quality and finishing says otherwise. ALL makers should be transparent where their instruments are made regardless of it's parts or as a whole as there's a lot of bullshit in this industry.
I've had to do a lot of keywork adjustments on it (or 'bending stuff about') to make it more comfortable to play as the ergonomics were way off compared to your usual Yamahas (which the owner also plays), Buffet and Selmer and even older Leblancs which just lie under the fingers much better.
It's nothing particularly special for a student level wooden clarinet and there's room for improvement. The pads (Valentino Masters) are all far too thick and sit at wonky angles in their respective pad cups and the badge on the E/B key rod makes removing the rod screw for the F/C and Ab/Eb keys a pain in the arse.
That's my observation anyway - I won't sugarcoat what I see. There are loads of other companies who source their instruments from overseas and that includes some UK based 'makers' who continue to fly the flag from where their company is based but not the flags of where their instruments are made and imported from.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2024-10-22 03:04)
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Author: RBlack
Date: 2024-10-21 23:20
The early ones (one of which I owned) at least were stamped “Made in Canada.”
Backun has been producing clarinets for a while now, and their processes have evolved over time. I would not be at all surprised to hear that they no longer meet the standard to be called “made in Canada” anymore because more of the production of student/intermediate instruments has been outsourced to make room for the high-end stuff in Canada’s facilities. This is my personal speculation however. I wouldn’t make any assumptions that the instruments are worse (or better) based on where they are made today. Some terrible products have come out of North America, and some incredible craftsmanship from China.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-10-22 17:02
Quote:
Just read Earspasm's email about a new shipment of bass clarinets from Buffet Crampon and went to his site to see what he and his tech do to set them up for sale after they arrive from BC. I was really surprised, considering the prices, at how many defects can be found in these new, very expensive instruments.
If a "pro" instrument in the 5 figures ballpark has these problems, what about the lower end of the price range and "student" models? it's worth checking out and taking into consideration.
It is appalling that ANY instrument would have that poor quality control and workmanship, to say nothing of one at that price. For years I have heard people talk about buying a new instrument and then having to spend another chunk of money to get it all set up, regulated and sealing properly. There were times over the years that I tried brand new Buffets in shops where the instrument was barely playable. It is as they are selling an unfinished instrument.
Wes Rice also regularly posts about the amount of work that his shop does to get everything playing https://www.clarinetworks.com
It makes me wonder about all of those instruments that are being sold through shops or online that don't have the knowledge or skill to fix potential issues.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-10-22 20:31
Has anybody see the new Buffet car?..... They've now got a promotional offer going, where they will pay to have it towed out of the showroom and to a mechanic of your choice.😁
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-10-23 05:21
Ed wrote:
"... There were times over the years that I tried brand new Buffets in shops where the instrument was barely playable. It is as they are selling an unfinished instrument..."
My understanding is that Buffet relies on the dealers/shops to adjust /put finishing touches on their instruments.
I have been lucky to be able to buy a few (six) brand new Buffet clarinets during the last 5 years and have not experienced any serious problems with any of them.
Two (maybe three) had tenons "swelling" - a common problem, easy fix.
One or two pads needed to be re-seated. That's all.
I can see how a bass clarinet may need more adjustments due to the complexity of the keywork, but that's why buying from a small dealer/shop is preferable to buying online.
Also, for those not wanting to deal with tenon swelling or other problems, there is a greenline version of almost all of Buffet's models.
Post Edited (2024-10-23 18:15)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-10-23 09:57
We all know that with any buffet, if you arrive a bit late then the salmon will be all gone and you're just left with the potato salad.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-10-23 16:43
While to the untrained eye, Buffets will appear to be perfectly fine, but there's loads of things they can do better and should do better if they want to fall back on their reputation.
I haven't seen a single pro level Buffet clarinet that doesn't need to be fully overhauled from the word go. If you think they're good to go with just a little bit of a fettle, then you've been duped. ALL Buffets need rebuilding from the ground up from new - no exceptions, they're all poorly made and finished.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2024-10-26 23:31
According to a well known musical insturment dealer (name withheld), Backun Beta, Alpha, Alpha Plus and Protege are now entirely made in China. The Q model has the body manufactured in Canada and the keys are made and fitted in China.
Only the most expensive Backun models are Canda exclusively.
In addition, Buffet many have outsourced some of the work on the E12F to China.
If you want a Clarinets (with the exception of the student rental model) entirely made in it's home country (Japan), buy Yamaha. I just purchased my 3rd SE bore model (YCL62/650/650II) and they are fantastic right out of the box. The intonation on the 650II is the best of ANY clarinet I've played. I wish for an SEVR, but they are backordered at present until May 2025. Saving my pennies.
Take a look at the Yamahas.
Tom
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2024-10-27 07:02
My six year old Alpha was not outsourced. I have the original paperwork that came with it. Kessler said it was in the first batch he received. No adjustments were made except for the faulty latch on the instrument case. Protege did not out yet.
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