 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2024-09-14 00:40
I mainly play sax, but play alto clarinet in a wind band to support. Although I've played alto clarinet like this for years, I have terrible difficulty getting any sort of rich sound - and even sometimes have difficulties getting the notes around B5 to speak. Bundy student model. B40 mouthpiece (and I've tried 5RV too) and every reed under the sun between 2 and 3 - alto clarinet and alto sax (including Legere). I know it's never going to be a loud instrument, but does anyone have any tips?
[Ive tested for leaks, of course, and it doesn't have any.]
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Author: WindyDankoff
Date: 2024-09-14 05:13
You can consider this:
BIGMouthPiece for Alto Clarinet
Big easy sound using a tenor sax reed
http://www.windydankoff.com/bigmouthpiece-for-alto-clarinet.html
I also have a prototype that plays perfectly, for a lower price.
Windy Dankoff
woodwind technician
Repairs - Improvements - Adaptations
BIGMouthPiece for Alto Clarinet
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-09-15 02:06
chris all you equiptment is good stuff and there is no reason you should not be getting a rich sound . i play a bundy most of the time and it sounds fine
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-09-15 12:36
The way we tend to test a dodgy electrical appliance, is to plug it into another socket.... one we know has stable power and a good connection . By the same token, if you can plug your instrument into someone with powerful projection and stable tone, this can be very illuminating in the matter of diagnostics and the elimination of the variables .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2024-09-15 21:17
Definitely have a tech check for leaks. My other suggestion would be to allow for greater key openings to eliminate some of the stuffiness. It worked wonders on my Selmer basset horn!
I use a Hte mouthpiece that works very well but also have Grabners that work well. To me the VanDorens sound stuffy on alto.
The best reeds I've found for alto are the Steuer alto sax reeds. I use 3 but a colleague here uses 2 and likes that better. It's a little easier blowing than the 3. You might like these for your sax too. They give a very rich sound.
Eefer guy
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Author: WindyDankoff
Date: 2024-09-15 23:26
If you can hit bottom in 2 registers, you don't have a significant leak.
I second Eefer guy's suggestion about PAD OPENINGS. You say the notes around B5 (upper clarion) are dull. This suggests insufficient opening of thumb key and the little pad that it actuates (under the top A key). On my Bundy, those openings are nearly 3mm (and it plays well). Technicians often don't get it right when overhauling altos.
If you wish to increase the opening, slide a strip of medium sandpaper under the thumb key bumper and sand it thinner (with light pressure).
You may also need to open the Bb (finger L1) bumper. These adjustments will not effect the register action. See for yourself.
Before you do anything, you can test pad openings by playing a note and closing the first open pad below it VERY slightly. If there is an IMMEDIATE dull or flat response, the pad is not opening enough. It needs to vent more freely.
You can do these particular corrections without risk if you are a bit handy. Otherwise, a technician can do it. Kindly let us know how it goes!
Windy Dankoff
woodwind technician
Repairs - Improvements - Adaptations
BIGMouthPiece for Alto Clarinet
Post Edited (2024-09-16 19:10)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-09-16 06:36
chris i did not mean to imply you were the problem-just that all you equiptment was up to par and something else must be a miss with the bundy . vandoren mpcs go quite well with altos so my money is on leaks. pad heights arnt usually as much an issue with bundy altos due to the open hole desighn but the wrong pad thickness could have been installed on the keys that matter most.this could make the horn speak poorly with a weak tone
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2024-09-16 18:15
It's hard to watch another doubler go down the same rabbit hole I've been down and not say anything. So I'm going to stick my neck out as a returning amateur clarinetist who took up alto clarinet to avoid having to learn sax and have made good progress in finding my sound.
- Yes, if you haven't already, get your alto into the hands of a good tech - preferably one who plays low clarinets - and have them check it all out, including pad heights, leaks and adjustment. Altos are finicky. If your alto is in good adjustment -
- A word of wisdom I got from a local pro low clarinetist when I started: Breath support on the middle B and C. Just a little extra steady breath pressure going in. I'm not a sax player, but I've been told that the lowest notes on a sax are the hardest to play and require extra attention. On the alto clarinet that is the middle B and C. Hell, I can make the upper altissimo scream on my alto without effort (which I have trouble doing on Bb clarinet), but still have to finesse the middle B and C.
- I have found that for myself a well-controlled firm, stable embouchure along with that little extra breath support going in to those notes is key. If I don't have good firm embouchure control going into it they tend not to speak well. If I have a mouthpiece and reed that make me adjust my embouchure rather than just firm it on those notes, it's not a good setup.
- Another gem of wisdom from the aforementioned pro: decide what sound you are aiming for. Here are two very different alto sounds that I love. One is very bold and almost sax-like. The other is sweet and mellow. That will play a large part in your mouthpiece and reed selection. Personally I tend toward something in between for wind band alto clarinet parts but would prefer the first if playing a sax part. Those would likely be different setups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad8EJbbCp7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoNVLsQWuQI
- Regarding mouthpieces and reeds: I don't know Bundys. My alto is a large-bore Leblanc pro instrument. It's sort of axiomatic that the mouthpiece and reed setup is unique to each player and their instrument. I've been through fifteen different alto mouthpieces (including a couple of the current boutique models), and keep coming back to the Vandoren B44 and recently the BD5 on my Leblanc for wind band. More free-blowing than your B40. Alto sax reeds work fine on those mpcs. If you have a chance to trial one of those I'd suggest doing so. Neither the B40 nor my old vintage Leblanc mpc (closer to your 5RV and very reticent-sounding) give me a full enough sound in wind band. Because I double and have to switch mid-rehearsal/concert, I find that Fibracell #2 reeds suit that situation and I can get decent sound from them. I too have gone through a passle of different types and strengths of reeds and am still experimenting. Vandoren V16 alto sax reeds seem promising for cane but cane is less predictable and makes finding a good setup more confusing. I'm exploring Legere Studio Cuts. I've given up on alto clarinet reeds entirely. There is an overwhelming number of possibilities. It just takes persistence - frustrating, expensive, necessary persistence to get it all to come together. I have to systematically keep notes to keep track of it all.
- contrary to what some think, I find that the ligature makes a signifiant difference. I like the Francois Louis Pure Brass alto clarinet ligature. I've not had much success with the soft ligs like Rovners but hard resin or hard rubber ones seem promising on synthetic reeds if you can find one that fits your mouthpiece.
I hope this is of some help.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-09-16 18:50
i also use the vandoren b44 on alto clarinet and recently tried the franco louise lig ature and found it extremly resonate and helps produce a very full sound . i also have a box full of great alto mpcs including botique ones but always come back to the b44
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Author: WindyDankoff
Date: 2024-09-16 19:14
Back to my note about pad openings - I mistakenly wrote Finger R1 when I meant to say L1 (now corrected). The thumb and upper key openings are very much in play, not influenced by open holes. Pardon my error.
Windy Dankoff
woodwind technician
Repairs - Improvements - Adaptations
BIGMouthPiece for Alto Clarinet
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2024-09-16 20:06
I might add that in a paper he wrote on the alto clarinet Mark Wolbers (first YouTube link above) wrote of having a Vandoren B44 refaced and opened up to a 1.48mm, which is even more open than the BD5. I suspect that it is part of how he gets such a huge sound in that video. Clark Fobes' alto mpc is a hefty 1.60, but I haven't been able to work up to making it sound well for me yet.
Dr. Wolbers paper is available at the link below. For alto clarinet afficionados it's pretty interesting and debunks a lot of longstanding myths about the instrument.
https://docslib.org/doc/3362747/alto-clarinet-the-endangered-species-of-the-american-band-mark-wolbers-university-of-alaska-anchorage-cbdna-2011-national-conference
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-09-16 20:36
>> If you can hit bottom in 2 registers, you don't have a significant leak. <<
On clarinets, and especially larger ones like bass and alto, a leak at the top (depending on size) would have a much bigger effect on the upper clarion (upper register left hand notes) than the bottom and long notes.
>> My other suggestion would be to allow for greater key openings to eliminate some of the stuffiness. <<
A quickie test for this, assuming this is a Bundy with some open rings, is whether the notes coming from the open holes sound significantly better than other notes? If open hole notes don't sound better than it is unlikely to be an issue with key venting. Check various (or all) notes since some key heights depend on each other and some aren't, and it's possible some are open enough and some aren't.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2024-09-16 22:03
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll keep trying. Definitely no leaks, and the venting seems pretty high. Maybe the answer is practice!
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2024-09-20 18:24
NOLA Ken stated : "Because I double and have to switch mid-rehearsal/concert, I find that Fibracell #2 reeds suit that situation and I can get decent sound from them."
Ken, does this mean you're using a Fibracell alto sax reed on the alto or does Fibracell actually make a clarinet alto reed ?
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2024-09-20 19:29
Djudy,
I'm using a Fibracell alto sax reed. Fibracell does not make an alto clarinet reed, or if they do it is not listed on their web site. Legere does not make an alto clarinet reed either and when asked suggested one of their alto sax reeds. My apologies for not making that clear.
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2024-09-29 23:03
Alto clarinets sound best with softer reeds - I learnt clarinet on the alto and don't use anything harder that 2.5. Best sound I have gotten from mine is with a 1.5 Vandoren blue box although if I am playing a lot of upper register stuff, I'll go with a 2 or 2.5, but notice the 2.5 really makes my tone sound thin and stuffy.
Most folks learn the alto as a second instrument, so from habit using harder reeds due to playing a soprano, they import harder-reed mindset to the alto and end up with a crappy sound.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2024-09-30 13:49
Yes - I've generally been using a #2 - Rico Royal alto clarinet or alto sax, or Jazz ZZ alto sax. They work well low down, but for example my part for The Dambusters goes up to C6 and I get either a squeak or nothing... I've tried every reed in existence, but seem unable to covert he full range with any one of them. Since nobody can hear me anyway when I'm in unison with the alto saxes, maybe I just put it down an octave...
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2024-10-01 15:35
Hunter 100 please what is alternate long fingering for C6 ? (perhaps you saw my thread about technique vs pad adjust, C6 is my really bad note)
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2024-10-01 19:12
Thank you Hunter 100, I know this site but hadn't thought to look there for a possible solution due to a closed minded attitude about this difficulty. And seeing as how there are as many as 7 possible fingerings for C6 I can certainly hope to find one that will work better than that unstable plain vanilla C6. And I guess it shows I'm not alone in having the problem !
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2024-10-01 22:15
While we're on the subject of getting a decent sound: I just got in a couple of Hartmann Fiberreed Carbon Onyx alto sax reeds. The Medium strength on a Vandoren B40 or BD5 mpc gives me just a great sound. (Good but not quite so nice on my B44 mpc.) Smooth, rich, very good articulation, and a much easier movement over the break than any other synthetic I've found. An alto clarinet sound, not a semi-sax sound. Definitely works much better for me on my Leblanc pro alto than any of the Fibracell, Legere, or Baris I've tried.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2024-10-02 02:04
Thanks for the suggestion - I will try those alternative fingerisngs - and I've booked the instrument in for a service in a couple of weeks too.
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2024-10-03 06:08
RE: goes up to C6 and I get either a squeak or nothing...
Honestly, unless the part has some specific reason for the alto to be up that high off the staff (in other words, there usually is no reason as sopranos and others can easily cover those notes) then if it were me I'd play down an octave. Altos are best playing below the break and that's where their best harmonics appear. When I used to play in community bands, only reason I was venturing above the break all alone (i.e. not supporting someone else) was because I needed to cover a bassoon part written for a critical yet non-existent bassoon.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
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