 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-10-01 02:17
I spent most of my many playing years using an R13. While I mostly did classical work, I used the same set up for any other styles as well. These days I am playing more jazz or commercial music. I have often heard players especially doublers, who speak fondly of the old Selmer Series 9. I sometimes see good deals on them and have considered trying one if it is the right price.
For those who have experience with both of these instruments, what differences in sound, feel and especially intonation, might I find? I am fairly flexible and adjust to different equipment, but I am wondering if the differences in design may really throw me as a long time player of the smaller bore, polycylindrical instruments.
Post Edited (2024-10-01 18:01)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-10-01 03:07
I do not have a Selmer 9 but tried it once.
That clarinet had more open sound and was less resistant comparing to an R13.
I think it would be similar to a later (1950-1954) pre-R13s.
Pre-R13s have less sophisticated sound (comparing to R13) but are more open and easier to play. If you go that route you'd want a later one that, hopefully, would not be worn out too much.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-10-01 17:13
I find Buffets very restrictive and Selmers will let you do what you want.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-10-01 18:02
Thanks Chris. I know you have extensive experience with the old Semers and was hoping you would weigh in. Are there any intonation issues that I would want to be aware of?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-10-01 18:58
I find I can't use some upper register fingerings I like to use on Selmers on Buffets as they're too flat.
One such fingering is an upper A-B trill where I prefer to do that trilling LH1 instead of trilling LH2 as you're only uncovering/covering the LH1 tonehole chimney without involving any other keywork or getting any pad slap or mechanical noise as you would when trilling with LH2. You can use that same trill fingering on B&H clarinets.
You can use the fingering oxo|ooo for an upper register B on large bore Selmers (and Booseys) which makes going from B to altissimo C# or D easier.
And in the altissimo register on Selmers, you don't have to use the Ab/Eb key for the D or Eb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2024-10-02 00:37
Chris: That's exactly how I feel; subjective though it may be. Buffet is a Buffet whereas Selmer is what you put into it and want out of it.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-10-02 01:17
Leblancs sit somewhere in between Buffet and Selmer.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: NOLA Ken
Date: 2024-10-02 06:28
My Selmer Series 9 is a full Boehm and I've never played the Series 9 standard Boehm to compare it to. But it has been said elsewhere in this BB and I'll repeat it here that the Selmer Series 9 tone holes are more difficult for those of us with smaller hands to manage. The size of the tone holes seem to be a bit larger and the reach between them a bit longer. I love the woody big-throated sound of my Series 9, but can't play anything on it at any speed. I leak at the thumb ring so tried having the thumb ring replaced with a plataeu key, only to discover that I also leak at the third ring on the upper joint. If I could afford it I'd have a total plateau conversion. I like the sound that much. I find the same to be true of the Selmer Centered Tone, the predecessor to the Series 9. I have one but can't play it worth a damn', which was a big disappointment.
I have several older Leblancs and an early-60s Buffet, and the keywork on all of them is very comfortable for me. I satisfy my love for the big bore sound with my Leblanc Pete Fountain model.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-10-02 12:51
Centered Tone toneholes are massive by all standards when it comes to clarinets - especially the LH3 (D/A) and RH3 (A/E) toneholes as they have to be made larger than the others surrounding them to compensate for the closed tonehole immediately below them. Reform Boehms and some others have a doubled LH3 tonehole (like a flute or cor anglais) to fully vent D/A and the tonehole immediately under LH3 is made considerably smaller as a result.
The thumb tonehole (F#) is also another tonehole larger than it ought to be because of the standard fingering for F# (LH1 only), whereas the F# side key tonehole is considerably smaller as that's a fully vented fingering. Buffet basset horns have doubled thumb toneholes to fully vent the standard F# fingering and if that was fitted to Bb/A clarinets, it would significantly reduce the diameter of the thumb tube.
Some other clarinets have an A/E vent on the lower joint to fully vent those notes and you'll often see the doubled RH F/C key pad cups on basses which is done to fully vent G/D and also on some older Leblancs.
Most Boehm system clarinets don't have all those extra vents to keep things simple and the costs down and make compromises by enlarging certain toneholes (you can see it far more clearly with all the keys removed), but you can have some handmade clarinets fully furnished with extra vents to fully vent the majority of fingerings.
Fully vented notes on regular Boehm systems are (from lowest to highest):
E/B (issues directly from the bell)
F/C (issues directly from the lowest tonehole)
F#/C# (issues directly from the F#/C# tonehole)
Ab/Eb
Bb/F
B/F# with the xxx|xx/o fingering
C/G
C#/G#
Eb/Bb with the side key or cross key fingerings
E/B
F/C
F# with the side key fingering
And open G to throat Bb.
All these notes are effectively forked notes as they have a closed tonehole immediately below the tonehole the note issues directly from:
G/D
A/E
B/F# with the xxx|oxo fingering
D/A
F# with LH1 only
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2024-10-05 00:43)
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Author: graham
Date: 2024-10-04 21:30
Last time I used the OXO fingering for B natural on my 1955 B&H 1010 it seemed notably flat. However it works well on my other B flat clarinets (a Hawkes-Martel, a Louis, and a Martel Freres a Paris). These are all straight bore instruments with between 14.8mm and 15mm bore sizes.
A clarinets are not as good with this fingering since they tend to play it flatter with a slightly more opaque tone. However, in rapid passage work this is not an issue. I use this fingering in the arpeggiated passage of the 2nd movement of the Nielsen wind quintet (which of course uses A clarinet).
This is also the fingering I use on the E flat clarinet in preference to the standard fingering.
graham
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