 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SkilledNovice
Date: 2024-06-19 16:05
At what point does it feel that your progress starts to slow down?
I suppose this question can be asked with other skills/instruments...
As a progressing HS Student, I feel as if every month, few months, year I am significantly better than my past self. I feel as if my skills keep growing and growing and each day I feel as if I can tongue, finger, and blow better.
At what point does this feeling of improvement start to die down and progress get much more slow and subtle?
I am also curious about when auditions start to be more turbulent and interpretation based compared to just who messes up less. I feel that players around my skill level have like a strict hierarchy about who is better yet there doesn't seem to be a hierarchy among more skilled players as everyone seems to have their own unique strengths with nobody having crippling weaknesses.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-06-19 16:44
SkilledNovice wrote:
> At what point does it feel that your progress starts to slow
> down?
>
> At what point does this feeling of improvement start to die
> down and progress get much more slow and subtle?
>
When the problems you're working to solve become more difficult and less basic. Highly skilled players never stop learning (and, therefore, improving), but the changes may not be as evident to people who hear them.
> I am also curious about when auditions start to be more
> turbulent and interpretation based compared to just who messes
> up less.
When the players who are auditioning become less likely or unlikely to mess up at all. This is mostly at the professional level or some college-level conservatories where the students arrive for their initial admission audition with technique already well-developed.
> I feel that players around my skill level have like a
> strict hierarchy about who is better yet there doesn't seem to
> be a hierarchy among more skilled players as everyone seems to
> have their own unique strengths with nobody having crippling
> weaknesses.
Yes, but as a high school student, you may be basing this observation on the professional players you see moving from top orchestra to top orchestra and rising in the recording world. As you say, whatever you think of their playing *musically* they are elite players and people choose their favorites for musical reasons.
Karl
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-06-19 19:08
Speaking as a jazz player, I plateaued in college both mentally and physically. But my taste and wisdom has continued to evolve over the years. My technical skills, memory and learning speed are worse as I get older. But my musicality is far better. My tone, my solos, my ear, my understanding of melody and harmony, my ability to blend and get through just about any tune is better than ever.
The takeaway is to develop your skills as much as possible when you're young, as that will largely determine your skill level for the rest of your life.
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2024-06-20 17:48
I think I have to disagree with Lydian about his suggestion to learn some aspects of playing early. Also, I think he contradicts himself on the basic learning point. He says he learnt more of the physical aspects of playing early on, but later developed other important aspects of playing. The conclusion is, one should develop the physical aspects early. However, Lydian's learning has continued all the time, just on different things. Others have no doubt developed their playing the reverse way to Lydian.
Who is to say what can be learnt and when by any individual. I think we learn when we learn, and its hard to accelerate or spur that, though it can happen. Maybe the right teacher at the right time, a fantastic performance etc. can push our thinking in a different way. I think we all follow our own path and may attain a peak in an area early. But what is a peak? It could be 90% of what other players can achieve. For most players, there isn't a definitive end point, just continuous learning.
If the objective is to become pro the measure is different. You have to be at the expected level of skill in whatever aspect of playing when it is necessary, such as at audition or on trial. Even if you fail, you'll learn from it.
Once out of college or 'youth' I imagine we've all had other things than playing come along and interrupt, slow or prevent further learning or development. That doesn't mean the potential isn't still there. A top classical pro here in the UK , Nicholas Carpenter (ex-London Philharmonic, now BBC Concert Orchestra) , explained that once out of college he was too busy playing professionally to improve his technique. Covid gave him time to learn new things. He explained how he chose double tonguing as something he wanted to learn. Many months ahead, he had been booked to play Beethoven 4 and his objective was to use double tonguing in that concert.
Covid also became an opportunity for me to think more about my playing and how I approach difficulties. Because of that, I can now play things I'd never have thought I could four years ago. I'm 70, and try not to limit myself by thinking what I can't learn. Of course, in some ways I've plateaued, but there is a natural limit to my ability. We can't all play at the level of our heroes.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2024-06-21 19:48
I am about to turn 70 and play in a mix of pro and semi-pro groups here in Oregon.
However, I'm finding I'm growing most musically by playing in quintets and smaller groups. For one, there is NO PLACE TO HIDE. Also it allows you to react and play with other musicians and see how your sound blends and how you have to make pitch accomadations for flutists who are going in the opposite direction from you in pitch. I have grown much more as a musician playing in these sorts of groups expecially in my music expression.
So, if I were to give a piece of advice, I'd say find a small group in which to play or even find a colleague who wants to play duets. There is all kind of interesting and challenging chamber type music to play in almost every combination.
Eefer guy
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-06-22 16:07
I think that although our rapidity of learning tends to decline as we get older, and likely also our motor abilities, this handicap can be significantly offset by other qualities we tend to develop with age, such as a clearer recognition of where we want to go and acceptance of what we will have to do to get there. Also, we will likely be better aware of our strengths and weaknesses, which will improve the focus of our practice which adds a certain dynamic. That said, what we learn at a younger age no doubt develops a related part of the brain which becomes more resistant to development later. But apart from that last point, I really prefer to see the whole matter as a card swap, and what makes for a winning hand is not just in the cards themselves, but how we play them. So although there is a certain inevitability about falling from one's peak in some areas, there are other peaks to be climbed from other angles.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2024-06-22 19:48
I agree with both Ken and Lydian.
As our experience/ability increases, easily noticeable improvement probably decreases because the steps become smaller.
However, I do think plateauing can occur at any time once focus is lost or is perhaps misguided. To me, the problem usually arrives when I've become stuck (mentally) on how to approach a problem. How to see that problem in a different context, etc. There's also a fear that by changing what needs changed (perhaps a foundational piece of my playing) that the whole will need to be rebuilt - perhaps I die on that hill because I'm too reluctant to go back and do that foundational work - and rebuild all that sat on top of it?
(When climbing a mountain, it is always discouraging to find the false summit, only to realize that you have to descend a huge valley and climb again - over and over - to reach the peak.)
So - for me, plateauing usually happens due to one of three reasons:
1. Simple Laziness
2. Inability to see the issue from a new perspective (stuck)
3. Fear of undoing something I love about my playing in order to fix something that I might or might not love about my playing later. (Everything begins to seem so inter-related)
I think that in youth, #2 was the big one. As I've gotten older, I'd say #1 and #3 protrude a lot more.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-06-23 12:24
Hi Fuzzy,
I think that your point 3. raises an interesting dichotomy between what one presumably losses through bad playing habits and what one gains by perusing one's personal relationship with the instrument irregardless. The latter is something often associated with many of the great autodidacts, who have somehow turned what would generally be regarded as handicaps, into an appreciable distinction. I appreciate that this is mostly not the outcome of this trade off, but non the less one's personal relationship with the instrument is very important.
< fear of undoing something I love about my playing in order to fix something I might or might not love about my playing later.>
That's so well expressed Fuzzy and definitely brings to mind Nietzsche's warning.
" Be carful, lest in casting out your demon you exorcise the best thing in you."
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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