 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-05-27 23:03
Starting a few weeks ago, I noted that many sellers on eBay, especially from Japan, started listing used clarinets at very high prices.
The US sellers are not behind. I see Buffet E11 prices close to $1000, E13s advertised for over $1K and R13s in good condition close to $2000.
I know that the prices on new clarinets have gone up, but the used clarinet prices seem to double in the last 6 months or so.
Why?
***I am not complaining because I got all the clarinets I will ever need (and more).
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2024-05-28 01:08
I have noticed the same. I chalked it up to either inflation coming to even this corner of the economy, or I have noticed that clarinet resale prices tend to go up when the economy isn't as strong (i.e., like used car prices are often higher when new car prices have risen). Just my observation...
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-05-28 09:05
Also, if the situation is such that fewer people can afford to buy new, the price of second hand tends to go up. When I lived in the north of England, there were people buying second hand cars in the south where people were richer, and selling them at a profit up north where people were poorer.
There's nothing as expensive as being poor.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-05-28 11:27
gwie wrote:
> A current search on Ebay shows over a dozen E11 clarinets
> available between $400-$600 dollars:
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Buffet+E11&_sacat=0
Yes, but there are many advertised for $700 and above.
>
> Used R13's have been pretty consistent this season--I've
> acquired over a half dozen of them for various students between
> $1500-$2000 from private sellers as well as shops. This has
> been pretty consistent over the past 4-5 years, the pandemic
> and inflation notwithstanding.
>
> Where exactly are you seeing these prices?
About a year ago, I bought off eBay a 1960 R13 for $730 and a 1957 R13 for $550 (including tax and shipping). Of course they required full overhaul. I do not see prices like that anymore.
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Author: HP
Date: 2024-05-29 19:50
In my opinion, the prices are becoming fair now. Vintage clarinets have been very underpriced in the last years. Especially if you compare them with vintage saxophones. Probably more people now have discovered them as high-quality instruments that sometimes even sound better than modern professional instruments
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-05-29 22:00
HP wrote:
> In my opinion, the prices are becoming fair now. Vintage
> clarinets have been very underpriced in the last years.
> Especially if you compare them with vintage saxophones.
> Probably more people now have discovered them as high-quality
> instruments that sometimes even sound better than modern
> professional instruments
HP,
I agree with you. I find that R13s from 70s have so much more "character" and focus in their tone quality, comparing to the more recent ones. The recent R13s do have their advantages- I find them more consistent in tuning and less resistant.
In any case, unless one needs (and can afford) the best possible instrument, a "good" R13 will serve most of the players just fine, at any setting- jazz, band, chamber or symphony, IMO.
Post Edited (2024-05-30 00:59)
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Author: mozartklar
Date: 2024-05-31 17:01
I think perhaps people are starting to see patterns developing with newer clarinets. What is coming out of the factories lately is poor craftsmanship/finishing paired with low quality wood. I've played many R-13s from 60s, 70s, 80s, and some of them are amazing compared to my own instruments. Also, you've got to factor in the fact that prices on new horns are rising at a very rapid rate. I bought at Prestige R-13 in 2021 for $6990, that instrument now is around $8500, especially if it's set up.
It seems to me that every wooden clarinet coming from Buffet these days needs at least a few tone holes resurfaced and springs adjusted, pads seated, etc.
Supply and demand...
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-06-02 07:18
mozartklar wrote:
> I think perhaps people are starting to see patterns developing
> with newer clarinets. ... I bought at Prestige R-13 in 2021 for
> $6990, that instrument now is around $8500, especially if it's
> set up.
I paid a lot less in Europe - took advantage of their lower prices + VAT reduction.
> It seems to me that every wooden clarinet coming from Buffet
> these days needs at least a few tone holes resurfaced and
> springs adjusted, pads seated, etc.
I do not think mine required any tone hole work, but I did change the C#/G# pad to a cork one on my new Bb- to get a better response.
Recently found a leak on my A and changed two pads on the upper joint- the instrument is about 1.5 y. old.
Two shop owners where I bought my Bb and A told me the same thing: "We go over them when we get them" but they did not mention doing any major work.
However, my understanding was they checked every instrument, regardless of the make.
Springs tension is a personal matter. The tech I go to reduces spring tension on the F#/C# key on new Buffets, as well as on the throat A key (if I remember correctly).
Our hands are so different that it is very difficult to create one instrument that fits all.
The string players have an option to chose an instrument of different dimensions, but woodwind players do not...
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-06-02 16:37
dont go by anything for sale out of japan. they are used to the high prices and think the rest of the world is also. used clarinets are still dirt cheap compared to the other instruments. just look on ebay
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2024-06-02 18:03
Make sure you are only comparing prices of "sold" instruments and not "for sale" instruments. People can ask for all kinds of prices, does not mean they are actually worth more.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-06-02 20:19
Hunter_100 wrote:
> Make sure you are only comparing prices of "sold" instruments
> and not "for sale" instruments. People can ask for all kinds
> of prices, does not mean they are actually worth more.
I did look at the "sold items".
For example, during the month of May:
a pre-R13 sold for $450;
an Evette with a K serial #, described as "stains, rust, scratches..." sold for $890!
a 1967 R13 sold for $755- prob. was a good buy;
couple more R13s sold for $750-800.
Many R13s sold for at least $1K and much more, around $1500-2000.
It looks like it would be more difficult for many students to obtain a good instrument.
On the other hand, I am sure used pro-level oboes and bassoons cost much more and are more expensive to overhaul.
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Author: MikeSF
Date: 2024-06-24 00:58
I added a post elsewhere about Japan eBay listings. My recent experience searching for a used R13 has allowed me to conclude pre-owned R13s in Japan are currently well underpriced versus USA listings on eBay, reverb, and in the stores my local area (CA). I just purchased from a dealer in Japan and saved $350-$500 on a comparable USA listed instrument.
When I need to buy instruments again I will start in Japan.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2024-06-24 19:57
Just one point ... generally in Japan "new" is always better than "old". I lived there for 8 years way back when and my entire audio & tv ensemble in my house was made from on-the-street discards - I had a gorgeous Nakamichi tape system, a Technic amp, can't remember the name of the speakers or TV but they were really good. BUT - each was a couple years old. There were literally no second hand goods shops around. Cars suffered the same fate, and additionally the government more or less forced old cars off the road by having "beauty" inspections. Not only did you need a safety inspection - something I more or less agree with for old cards - but after that someone checked your car out for aesthetics. Spot of surface rust? Need to get the car repainted. Stained wheels - need new ones. Essentially, there was no used car market in Japan. They were shipped to 3rd world countries where they got a new lease on life.
I will take a gander that the system hasn't changed much and old instruments do not keep their value, even if the new ones haven't really significantly improved. Their loss, our gain (and their gain - we end up with 2 happy parties)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-06-25 15:29
Mark Charette wrote:
>... I will take a gander that the system hasn't changed much and
> old instruments do not keep their value, even if the new ones
> haven't really significantly improved. Their loss, our gain
> (and their gain - we end up with 2 happy parties)
Hi Mark,
I am not so sure about the gain since in the US we have to pay the customs import duty on online purchases from Japanese eBay sellers.
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