 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-07 20:47
I've never seen one or heard of one before. But, he's offering a money-back guarantee, so if you're interested in it, bid on it. And, it does look nice.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-08-07 21:09
I wish I could bid :(
I have to take a student orchestra audition soon and depending on the outcome I might have to invest in an A clarinet if the school does not have any.
I am not planning on a professional career, so I would love to delay the purchase of an A horn until I'm done with my studies and have the $$ to spend on a nice greeline A clarinet ;->
Hopefully, studying Computer Science will get me the kind of job and $$ to buy a nice clarinet without thinking about price.
I'm still curious about hte R14-1/2, what is it?
-S
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-08-07 21:19
From Francois Kloc (in a response to Jacvk Kissenger in Aug, 1998):
I" have with me an original catalogue from the 50's that present the NEW models
of Buffet Crampon clarinets which were distributed at this time by Carl Fisher
Musical Instruments CO.Inc New York 3 NY. The Models number are kind of funy
and I am not sure one hundred purcent but I think those were made by Carl
Fisher and not Buffet for this market I can double check .I give you some
example: R13, R13 1/2, R14, R14 1/2, R16 , R16 3/4.
The 1/2 apparently was used for the clarinet with Eb lever. For the R13
The R14 was a clarinet with 17 keys and 7 rings wich was a clarinet with the
Eb lever + a ring for the third finger to facilite the G# passages.
The R16 was a 19Key 7Rings clarinet articuled G#, Eb lever and Forked Bb.
The R16 3/4 was a 20 keys 7 rings clarinet With all the feature from the R16 +
low Eb key.
When I found this catalogue it was the first time I have seen those number. I
have seen many Buffet Calrinet with Name from cities or stores on it I think
it was very common many years ago now the stores put their sticker on the
case."
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-08-07 21:19
Last time around, this was at auction in Late May (no takers, then).
I dunno where the R14 1/2 designation originated, the Buffet people drew a blank!
Harveshappy horns were obdurated about the reserve (over $1500, last auction),
maybe it is in reach this time.
Me, I auditioned and bought a YCL-SEvA clarinet and love it.
Brook Mays has been auctioning a YCL-SEA (nearly the same) and will prolly go $1100 USD.
How's the wrist these days?
Go McGill!
anji
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Author: Sherwood W. Franklin
Date: 2001-08-07 21:25
An R-14 1/2 is an 18 key, 7 ring Buffet Master Bore Bb clarinet. The literature I have is from 1941 and shows a photo of this clarinet. As a matter of Fact there were several models of these clarinets made. An R-13 Master Bore Model had 17 keys, 6 rings; an R-13 1/2 Master Bore Model had 18 keys, 6 rings; an R-14 Master Bore model had 17 keys, 7 rings;; I have already described the R-14 1/2; an R-16 Master Bore model had 19 keys, 7 rings; and an R-16 3/4 Master Model (of which I have one made about 1937) had 20 keys, 7 rings. I do not know if the horn you are writing about is a real R-14 1/2 or not. I hope this answers your question about the R-14 1/2.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-07 21:39
Sylvain -
According to Francois Kloc, the only "R" designation Buffet used in France was R-13 for the model introduced in the early 1950s.
However, the catalogs issued by Buffet in the U.S. used "R" designations for key configurations. Even before the polycylindrical R-13 was introduced, Buffet sold its standard 17-key 6-ring instrument under the catalog designation R-13. Oddly, the designations went up by half numbers, with "1/2" indicating the presence of the left-hand little finger lever for Ab/Eb. Thus the R-13-1/2 was an 18/6 instrument, the R-14 was 17/7 and the R-14-1/2 was 18/7. It went up to R-16 or R-16-1/2 for the full-Boehm instrument. Buffet continued to use these designations in U.S. catalogs for a number of years. I remember seeing a catalog from the mid-1960s that had them.
All this was laid out in detail in a series of postings on the Klarinet board a few years ago. See http://www.sneezy.org/Databases/Logs/1998/08/000759.txt . A search on the Klarinet logs for R-14 will bring up other items.
The instrument on eBay has appeared several times over the last few months but has not sold. It's "new old stock" -- that is, an instrument made in the early 1950s but never sold or used. One indication of this the two small cork wedges under the sliver keys, which were always on new Buffets at that period. On previous appearances, the seller has set a reserve higher than anyone has been willing to pay -- as I recall, it's gotten close to $1,000. We'll see if it sells this time. The 111,000 serial number range was a good one for Buffet, and this one, being new, has a good chance of not having been tampered with. Still, I wonder why it didn't sell. You would think a music store going out of business would at least try to sell off its stock. It could be an instrument nobody liked. Still, the seller is offering a return option, so it might be worth going after.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Sherwood W. Franklin
Date: 2001-08-07 21:41
Incidently, the message from Mark charette indicates that Francois Kloc believes that the information he had was from the 1950's. I believe the information from Francois Kloc came from copies of the literature I left for him when I visited Bossey and Hawkes about three or four years ago. I left the literature with a technician, whose name I do not remeber, because Francois Kloc was out of Town at the time. I specifically told the technician the literature was from 1941 and not from the 1950s. The literature a have is for the Bb Master Bore model only and does not include key of A models. It is possible that Buffet made equivilent models carrying the same number designations as the Bb. I do not know.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-08-07 21:46
Mark and Sherwood:
Thanks a lot for the info, so I guess it just an R13 with more keys.
I originally thought it was like the S1, a supposedly improved R13 but ended up very stuffy. If any of you have more info about bore size/type, etc.. ?
Again, I'm just curious ;->
Anji:
Thanks for asking, the wrist is much better since I put the Kooiman gizmo on. This toy is wonderful! Congrats on your audition, I am up against all the Music performance majors at McGill so my chances to make it in the orchestra are slim...
Anyways, can't wait until the hockey season starts ;->
-S
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-08-07 22:00
Great info re: extra-keyed horns! I'd call it a "half-full" Boehm [not real sure about absence of the alt. Ab/Eb lever] but no low Eb. Also see the other F B post! Don
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Author: KevinS
Date: 2001-08-07 23:49
This is a nice looking horn. I was interested before I bought my 1961 Buffet FB. At that time, I think the seller had like a $2,400.00 reserve. Anyway, the reserve was enough to scare me away! I ended up paying 900.00 for my FB.
Nice looking horn, though,
Kevin
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-08 00:18
Sylvain wrote:
>
> ... Thanks a lot for the info, so I guess it just an R13 with more
> keys...
Read the posts more carefully. As indicated, there was a series of horns in the 1940s with numbers like R-xx including R-13 but it was a marketing number not the polycylindrical R-13 introduced in the 1950s that is what most people mean when they say R-13.
So the R-14 /12 is a 1940s Buffet that is *NOT* related to the design of what we commonly call R-13. If you run across an instrument designated R-13 that pre-dates the 1950s, it is one of this group that used R-xx as marketing designation and you must be careful not to confuse it with the R-13 introduced in the 1950s and still made today.
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Author: Sherwood W. Franklin
Date: 2001-08-08 04:02
Please note that the "R" series in the 1940s I refer to are "Master Bore" clarinets. None of this series clarinets bore any identification marks on them other than the Buffet logo. It was possible to keep track of the different models within the series by the key layout. Although the R designations of these clarinets was the way Carl Fischer identified these clarinets, it has always been a mystry to me why Buffet continued using the same designation for the completely different series of polycylindrical of clarinets developed by Caree in the 1950s. Perhaps someone out there has the answer. So if someone says they're selling an R-13 clarinet and it does not have the identifying "R-13" on it in addition to the Buffet logo, then it is not a polyclindrical model.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2001-08-08 05:09
The is <b>NO</b> identifying mark on an R-13! In fact, that's what identifies it as an R-13! Any Buffet made 1955 or later without any identifier is what we know as a polycylindrical R-13. Prior to 1955 there were some made, but they have to be measured to find out if they're an R-13 or a previous model.
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Author: Tracey
Date: 2001-08-08 06:00
Doesn't it say R13 on the barrel as well as on the bell? I'm not sure if they're considered technically as part of the actual clarinet-- but, it's there. 
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Author: Josh
Date: 2001-08-08 06:26
No, it just says "Made In France" under the Buffet insignia on all joints, which is lacking on the intermediate and student models, which just have an insignia sans "Made In France" and the model designation on the upper joint directly under the insignia. (check out all the E11's and E12's and E13's up for auction...you'll see it.)
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-08-08 12:51
You need the sekrit decoda ring and the magic Red plastic overlay to read the
hidden insignia.
Udda wize, Ull nevah see the emblazoned stamp of approval!
anji
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-08-08 14:47
Boy, am I glad I started this thread!
To go on with my lack of knowledge about pre 50's clarinets, what is the Master bore model? Was it simply a long cylinder, or where they already tweeking the bore to improve intonation and tone? Did it have undercut tone holes, or was that also added later to the R13 (the real one ;-> )?
I know that the polycylindrical bore was what really made the R13 famous, which brings another question to my mind :
If the polycylindrical bore brought overall better intonation and evenness in sound, then what does the conical section on the lower joint of the RC adds to the sound?
-S
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