 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 7
Date: 2001-08-07 09:39
I'm new to this whole Clarinet thing. I've always loved the sound and just the way it looked, but I never got around to buying one.. until last month.
I'm a 33 year old self taught piano player (piano and synth) and musician. I mostly play/write electronic music but have been steering towards Jazz this last year -hence the clarinet. The goal of my playing clarinet will be to include it my Jazz music, mostly a drums, piano, bass, clarinet mixture.
I don't read music or have had any lessons to speak of (just to clear that up) but I have a good ear for tone. Being fairly rural, there is really no one in the area to take lessons with.
Anyway, I bought a Vito ResoTone 3 used off ebay (98 bucks). It's in great shape.. brand spanking new. I would guess it has the basic mouthpiece that came with the clarinet.
I went and bought some reeds -Rico #2 though #5 - and started squawking away. So far so good. I'm getting much better tones and overall sounds with the Rico #2 1/2 then any of the others so I'm currently making my noises with those. I'm getting few squeaks in the lower notes and feel pretty good in that range, the upper range is a different story.. but I'm getting there.
So I have a handful of questions I've yet to get/find very good answers on.
1) Ligature placement?
I've been messing with the best place for this. Is there a common placement for the ligature. Right now I've been putting it about a half centimeter from the bottom of the reed and that seems to be working pretty good. Is that about right?
2) Mouthpiece?
From what I've seen looking around this board and several other websites, I should junk my current mouthpiece and buy another.
I've been digging around the web for different mouthpieces but I'm overtaken by all the different kinds. Rubber, plastic, crystal, #3, #5, etc.. aaargh! What does it all mean? I'm digging the crystal ones (they just look cool), but I would suspect those might not be the best choice.
Being a beginner, self taught, what would you suggest for a mouthpiece?
3) Clarinet itself?
From what I've found the Vito is a pretty good basic model for children and beginners and so far it's suiting my needs -the cat sleeps through my playing so that's a good sign I guess.
Is there another model I should look for which might be better then the Vito? I found a funky old metal Regent on ebay for 50 bucks.. for fun I bought that as well (I don't have it yet).
4) Practice.
I've been mostly working on getting good tones, holding long notes, working on getting better at the higher notes. Tonight was my 9th time on the thing and my wife is impressed (which is hard to do when it comes to my wife and music.. heh heh). I've been playing some basic progressions out on the piano, recording it, playing along with the recording on the clarinet so I know I'm staying in tune.
Any other basic tips that might help?
5) Reeds?
So many to pick from. Like I said I'm using the Rico #2 1/2. Is there a better brand reed I should use? Better size? What about plastic reeds?
6) Just for fun.
What is considered the Steinway of Clarinets? How about the Les Paul of mouthpieces? Is there THE reed to use? I know everyone has their own take on this.. I'm just wondering.
So many questions,..
I must say I've been reading through this site and have been learning some stuff, but I thought I'd post these questions out. If some of these have been covered in another thread (I admit I didn't dig through the forum that deep) perhaps you could point me to the thread?
Cheers to all.
Seven
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Author: 7
Date: 2001-08-07 09:48
Oh yeah.. question #7
Take the clarinet apart when done?
I'm swabbing out the spittle when done and keeping it clean. I'm storing it in the studio which keeps regular heat/humidity. Do I need to break it down?
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Author: Fred
Date: 2001-08-07 12:27
Sounds like you are doing pretty well. My main concern is some issues you didn't mention.
The embouchure (how you hold the mouthpiece in your mouth) is really critical. It will limit your progress if it's not right. You can search the bb for "embouchure" - that will give you several days worth of reading. Sure wish you could check it out with a local band director (at least) though.
The second issue is hand position. The tendency is to mash down the keys bending back the last knuckle. Bad plan . . . don't go there. Relax the fingers and keep a natural curve in them. Both hands should be slightly angled upward toward the mouthpiece. And finally, when you are playing - keep your fingers from flying around. Less movement is better.
A quick run at your questions:
1) Personal choice. Lower = easier vibration (maybe more squeeks though.)
2) Mouthpieces are the holy grail. You probably need to switch. Since you like the look of crystal (looks DO count), why not try the Pyne Polycrystal from one of our sponsors (Go to Sponsors at top right of this page.) It's not real glass/crystal, but I don't think you are ready to go there right now. It's probably acrylic - but clear. There are some other great student mp's as well that others may mention. The most important thing is how it plays for YOU.
3) Vito is fine for now. You can get LOTS better on the Vito. Ask again in a year or two. However, I strongly recommend having a repair tech check it out and adjust it if needed. You may not be in a position to tell if it's all OK or not. You don't need to fight the horn and think it's your problem.
4) Good start - much can be added as time goes on. Long tones are great for developing breath support. Breath support would have been my third concern if you hadn't been doing long tones.
5) I'd avoid Ricos. Most better players seem to play Vandorens. I like Mitchell Luries. The mouthpiece manufacturer should be able to tell you an appropriate strength for the mouthpiece. The plastic reeds are neat, but are you still chipping reeds with your teeth? If so, save the $17 and use cane for now.
6) Too much controversy to go here, but in the USA most playing professionals play a Buffet clarinet. Maybe not always the best, but certainly the most widespread. Mouthpieces are all over the map. From $30 to $700 for old rare ones. The best new mp's cost about $200. I think the Polycrystal is about $30 - but don't quote me.
7) You should take a wooden clarinet apart after use - not as critical for plastic. But when you've pulled out at a joint for tuning and it fills with moisture, you could grow the equivalent of Three Mile Island in the crack. At least clean it occasionally.
Once again, I hope you'll at least make contact with the local band director. You really should have someone to guide you . . . at least occasionally. Small mistakes become bad habits. Good Luck and welcome aboard.
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Author: Roger
Date: 2001-08-07 12:56
Vandorens (regular and V-12) are popular. Strength depends on mp.
I suggest you get with a clarinet teacher (one who plays clarinet) & have him check out your mp. Sometimes you do not need a mp. A good all purpose mp is a Vandoren B-45.
Swab regularly. Wipe off the keys also.
Good luck
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-08-07 13:10
Good on ya!
The Vito will serve you well, for YEARS.
They're nearly indestructible, the tone is reasonably good and the action is fine.
I like it for a starter horn, particularly with young players.
It's all about the reed and letting it sing.
Forget about the Ancient, mythic 'Les Paul' or vintage Martin mouthpiece.
FORget about it. It is a slippery slope and you will never be satisfied.
It is a short trip from mouthpiece hunting to living out in a woodsy cabin with 100 cats... don't do it.
The mouthpiece and ligature are the limiting or 'gating' step, much like microphones for recording. If you have the bucks (around $200, and worth it) get hold of Clark Fobes. I recommend looking up Dave Spiegelthal for a made-to order rig. Search his name under AUTHOR and click the underlined name to send him email.
Lastly, I strongly recommend the Legere Synthetic reed at the onset. (Probably a #2 1/4 to #2 1/2 at first.) They are actually quite good.
I have played other synthetics and don't much care for them.
The mail order houses, IMS, WW&BW, Muncy winds all carry them for around $15/each reed. Sounds like alot? They outlast cane 10:1!
The Gigliotti Plastic ligature is good, cheap and durable. Other than the really expensive versions in fabric, most of the metal ligs will do as well.
Lastly, get a tolerant teacher to help out for the first coupla weeks, anyway.
They will help you overcome the pitfalls awaiting all us plonkers.
You go, boy!
anji
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-08-07 14:50
7. If you leave ir assembled between playing the tenon corks will compress and not recover, so the joints become loose and the corks need replacing.
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Author: Brian Johnson
Date: 2001-08-07 16:52
Hi : I have here before me a old clarinet, that my sister used 30 years ago in the school band. It is a A. Fontaine , made in Couesnon, Paris. The model number is stamped 1753 on the center peice part below the thumb rest. The instrument appears to be made of wood and has a very dark stain. The pieces of the instrument slide together with a cork gasketing, and using paste? I am not sure?
The metal keys and attachments on the clarinet appear to be made of silver as they appear tarnished. What product should I used to clean up this metal,that will not leave a mess on the instrument or damage it. The case appears to be alright and the pieces are all there for this instrument. I would say that it is in good shape. Can you tell me, approximately what this instrument would cost today? And some tips if I purchased it to clean it up and look after the cork gasketing.
Are parts still available for this instrument if I do eventually need a arm or pad. And how can I tell if there is anything worn or needing repair. If you can give me some good sites to collect information on while I continue my search I would appreciate it very much. Thanks from a school band parent.
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Author: connie
Date: 2001-08-07 17:51
To 7: Welcome to the wonderful world of clarineting!
Regarding ligature placement: many mouthpieces have two horizontal lines indicating approximate lig placement. I say approx because as Fred says, there is some variance by individual choice. Basically you want to keep it sort of centered over the bottom half of the reed (the heel) where it still has the bark.
Regarding mouthpieces: around here, the Hite Premier is a popular inexpensive mouthpiece that most teachers are using with their early students, but they have a reputation of warping easily. Hard rubber or crystal( poly crystal too) will be more resistant to warpage, hence the suggestion for vandoren B45, which is another popular middle-of-the-road type mouthpiece. Crystal is pretty fragile; I've ruined the tips of a couple with very little contact. But I'm a kluta, anyway. You can get the mail order houses like IMS and WW/BW to send three at a time on approval, try them out for a couple of weeks, and then send back any (or all) that you don't want. Just don't scratch or mark them, or they're yours anyway. It pays to buy the little mouthpiece patches so your teeth don't inadvertently mark the mouthpiece until you know you want it; some people prefer to play with them on anyway for comfort.
Just my $0.02.
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-08-07 19:03
If you don't mind, I'll jump from question to question:
#3: I'd be more worried about #5 and #2 for the sound. I play on an old student model clarinet and sound just fine.
#5/#2: It's all matter of preference. I prefer Hite Premier mpcs and LaVoz reeds, and half the world thinks I'm insane for it. But they're both good to get started on.
#1: Once again, matter of preference. There are some ligatures I put on upside-down to get the best sound from.
#4: I would also suggest visiting a local clarinet professor or band director.
#7:It's best to take it apart. If you're the type of person who doesn't take more than a 15 minute break at a time, however...
#6: Most people seem to like Buffet R-13's... But there's a long list of possibilities. Just look for frequent references to certain brands on this forum - besides Lark, which is a Chineese brand that's not worth the time and money to buy it becuase it will fall to peices when you play it.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-08-07 19:34
Very good advice re ?'s. I had an old Fontaine wood [made by Cousenon] some time ago, a fair player as I recall. I believe it was/is the student model, likely F was an employee or joint owner, havent seen much of C for some time. Don
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-08 00:35
Brian Johnson wrote:
>
> Hi : I have here before me a old clarinet, that my sister used
> 30 years ago in the school band. It is a A. Fontaine , made in
> Couesnon, Paris ... Are parts still available for this instrument if I do
> eventually need a arm or pad. And how can I tell if there is
> anything worn or needing repair. If you can give me some good
> sites to collect information on while I continue my search I
> would appreciate it very much. Thanks from a school band
> parent.
This should have been posted as a new topic as it is unrelated to this thread.
However, these are no longer in production. If you were to actually break a lever, etc. (quite a rare occurrence) a tech would have to scrounge one from an old parts horn or fabricate a new one. Pads, corks, and springs come in standard ranges of sizes so these things are easily repaired on most any horn less than 100 years old. The only way to estimate how much repair is required is to have a qualified technician or very experienced clarinettist look it over. The repair tech is preferable.
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Author: 7
Date: 2001-08-08 03:12
HOLY COWBONIES!
Lot's of replies.
Fred: I've been going back and forth between single-lip and double-lip embouchure. I start with the double but can only play like that for about 20 minutes. Then I switch to the single and can play for about 30 more before my face won't form that face anymore.
As for the fingers, I'm playing the clarinet much like I play the piano. Sounds about how you describe..
Gordon: I heard that about the corks from another person today. I guess I'll start breaking it down more.
As for everyone else that replied.. thanks for the tips.
I think I'll invest in the poly-crystal mouthpiece and a handfull of different reed makes. Looks like for about 60 bucks I can get a new mouthpeice and a wide variation of reeds to play with.
I would suspect you'll be seeing me around. :D
Cheers
7
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Author: Jim
Date: 2001-08-08 04:06
Though I love the clarinet and have little interest personally in sax, with your interest in jazz, you might want to venture to sax after picking up some clarinet.
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-08 11:48
If you can't obtain the assistance of a teacher, seek the help of a non-teaching player.
IMO, there are too many VISUAL things that you must SEE on another player.
BUT, as susual DSFDF.
mw
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