 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RefacerMan
Date: 2024-03-17 02:24
My clarinets have always had cork pads on the top joint, except for the upper bridge key. And a cork pad on the lower joint for the chromatic b/f#. But I noticed that a lot of places that sell clarinets now use all synthetic pads on the top joint and leather pads on the bottom joint. I know a lot of the new synthetic pads are really good. Could you share your opinions about switching to synthetic pads and leather pads. Pros/cons. Thanks for any information you can share.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-03-17 03:53
I still use a mixture of cork and leather in different configurations - either just two cork pads (domed speaker key pad and a flat one in the LH1/open G vent) and the rest leather, cork pads in the low lying keys (speaker, LH1, side F# and Eb/Bb, LH Eb/Bb and C#/G# on the top joint and also the RH3 B/F# 'sliver' key) or cork everywhere except the largest four (or five on full Boehm) pad cups. Sometimes a cork pad in the RH Ab/Eb key as well which is usually a 14mm diameter pad.
As for synthetic pads, I've been using Pisoni Pro CLS pads on many clarinets for a good number of years now and haven't had any complaints about them so far, but I still use a cork pad in the speaker key (which is domed) and the LH1/G vent for a clear open G as that pad can be made as thin as I want it to be.
Some treated leather pads can stick to tonehole bedplaces and leave bits of the plastic surface layer stuck to them. I haven't had any trouble with Pisoni Pro CLS pads sticking - the ones I like best have a thin surface coating which they call 'synthetic bladder', although I've had no problems with the ones that aren't faced and just have the plain synthetic disc in them. I prefer to use the black ones as the white ones do pick up the natural stain from grenadilla which is less visible on the black ones.
While the large diameter ones (15mm and upwards) have an angled and thinner step than the smaller diameter ones from 12mm and under, the shoulder is too thick for use on Buffets but it can be turned down to make it much thinner so the pads sit deeper in the pad cups and have an even amount of pad sidewall showing around the edge. Use a scalpel or a small sharp chisel to reshape the shoulders while spinning them mounted in your bench chuck, or carefully use abrasive to sand the step down to the required shape.
I've not used Valentino Masters pads as they're not readily available here (in the UK), but if they're anything like Valentino Greenback pads, I never really cared much for them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-03-17 04:08
I've been a fan of synthetic pads for at least the last ten years. The first experiment was with all Kraus Omni pads on ALL the pads. The ones used were somewhat hard (there is a range of hardnesses available) and "clacked" on the four big pads at the bottom. My next round was using all Valentino Masters which worked great in all locations. In theory, these pads should last almost indefinitely. However I did have one (I believe the pad between first and second fingers of the left hand) that had the top layer disengage and fall off requiring replacement. That was the only failure of any synthetic I've ever had.
Most recently I have tried an all Clarissono Quartz Resonance Pad clarinet.
https://clarissono.de/en/pads.html
I sold it within just a few months (not a reason related to the pads) and loved how strong they made the sound and how spooky quiet they are. The main body of the pad is a rather flexible silicone, and the contact surface is a silicon concoction that barely at all develops a seat......and yet when installed properly seals like a dream.
I am looking to do the upper joint of another clarinet in the Quartz Resonance Pads very soon!
.............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2024-03-17 05:29)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2024-03-17 05:44
I have all synthetic pads on my set of Yamaha CSVR Bb/A clarinets, but they're the "silent" ones by Lohff & Pfeiffer, which are fantastic. In order to offset some of the cover they add to the tone, they put metal resonators on the larger pads (like a saxophone), and the results are awesome!
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2024-03-17 08:20
My horns use a combination of quartz resonance and leather pads. The logic seems to be to use quartz resonance if the pad mostly stays shut and leather if it is only shut when you press a key. This works very well for me--I'm delighted with how they sound, and other people also seem to be. But you need to find someone who thoroughly understands the pads before you ask them to put them on your horn. They're like cork in some ways and not in other ways. Clarissono provides training for techs, but that's a hard sell in the U.S. Woodwind Boutique is a place you can inquire at.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-03-17 18:35
I wonder if anyone did an objective test on how specific pad type affects the sound (if such a test can be done at all since our hearing is subjective).
Did any one had their clarinet re-padded with leather pads, played it for a while and had it re-done with cork pads?
I believe that after a good quality overhaul/re-pad the clarinet is going to respond much better than before anyway, so it would be difficult to assess how much the specific pad(s) affect the sound/response (if pads were installed properly).
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-03-18 04:57
When I bought my clarinet, cork pads were installed in a few places in the top joint. The rest were traditional skin pads. As time passed and the skin pads wore out, I had them replaced with synthetics. At this point my clarinet still has the few cork pads and everything else is synthetic. I love that they seal really well and last for ages.
Years ago when I first started using synthetics I had a discussion with my tech about cork vs synthetic. His attitude was that both work well, but the synthetic was a little more forgiving as they are a bit more flexible. I have no complaints about them.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-03-18 06:54
Two things.
I don't believe that we will ever have a completely objective way to evaluate anything with a clarinet (or any musical instrument for that matter) since there are too many variables and we are subject to our own changing evaluations.
What I'd say though is that cork and many synthetic (sush as the Omnis, QRPs and Valentino Masters) pads have a flatter, harder surface. This seems to aid the sound (wave form) to bounce off and out of the horn better. Over the years, playing on old cork repair jobs or brand new ones, I always hear a much more solid sound than what you'd get with fish skin pads.......or even leather. I've had all leather pads on my Wurlitzer 100Cs and had the top joint changed out for cork soon after I got them.........and never regretted the change one whit. I know that Europeans do prefer their leather. Again........the vagaries of our variable human foibles.
As for the remark concerning the "forgiving nature" of synthetic pads. That comes from the prevalence of the Valentino Greenback pads. These were certainly long lasting and had achieved an amazing seal. However, the actual sound seemed less lively than on cork (or the newer offerings of synthetic pads). I attribute this to the "absorbent" nature of these soft pads as well as the deep seats that occurs causing a very irregular surface off of which the sound has to reflect. Though those are guesses on my part.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-03-18 14:52
What fish do they get fish skin from again?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-03-18 15:24
The original (white) Valentino pads were intended as a "first aid" pad that could be installed without shellac and were a bit forgiving re orientation so would seal quite easily. There was an article in "The Clarinet" showing teachers how to install these and the main attraction was the adhesive backing.
In the mid 1990s a repair tech (who had worked for Morrie Backun in Canada- prior to the whole barrel/bell revolution) set up in NZ and used these original Valentino pads as the "wonder pad" that would last forever. I had a clarinet overhauled with them in early 2000 and not a single pad had given trouble when I sold it in 2008 (after being played between 4 and 10 hours a day for the 8 years). My Festival Bb clarinet had these pads put on by the same workshop in 2008, and to this day only ONE PAD has needed to be replaced (the surface peeled off one day with no warning).
These white Valentinos, whatever can be said of the tone quality (and problems with the closed keys getting a pronounced indentation), seem to be reliable for a LONG TIME. I'm told some of the newer Valentino options "sound better" and I believe it, but haven't had the time nor money to try them out.
A friend of mine who plays in Sydney Symphony and London Symphony had a clarinet padded entirely with cork (including the "open keys"). This sounded and FELT amazing, was a little noisy (forcing you to develop "soft fingers" ala Bonade for legato playing) but also was quite unforgiving of any key movement or wear.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-03-18 18:48
Donald,
So in theory the Valentino Masters will last as valiantly as the "soft" Valentinos (I've experienced similarly set up clarinets both in person and legend). The Valentinos give you the SOUND of the ALL cork of which you speak but the largest pads at the bottom are soft enough to be almost as silent as standard pads made of fish skin.
and that brings me to Chis P
I assume there are enough of us out there that still refer to standard pads this way.
As for the QRP (Quartz Resonance Pads by Clarissono) I'd LOVE to hear stories regarding their longevity if there are some out there who want to share!
............Paul Aviles
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-03-26 06:31
I have put the Ferrees tool Norbeck pads on my Alto clarinet and will do the same on my basset horn. Soft backing and take little to no seating indentation, less than cork. They were the thinner ones which IMHO fit these horns better as they seem to come with pads that are too thick.
They need more glue to assist with the floating in the pad. Seal is good and the pad can be pulled down to seat as the backing is softer. The description describes an almost indestructible pad.
Seems to have a responsive sound.
Put in metal resonators on the A and Bb lowers notes that nearly fill the tone holes, with shimmed valentinos. IMHO this was the biggest improvement once you move away from fishskin pad.
Decades ago I put the original shimmed valentinos in my flute complete mess as they were soooo spongy and did not seal. Ripped em out a short while later.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-03-26 17:38
So-called 'fish skin' is sausage skin which is made from the intestinal membrane from cattle. No fish were harmed in the process, although fish evolved into cattle some several millions of years ago.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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