 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: zizala
Date: 2024-02-23 20:48
Hello all,
Has anyone directly compared something like a mid 60’s Selmer Series 9 low Eb bass clarinet with the current Selmer Privilege Model 65?
If you could share your thoughts on this it would be appreciated.
I have been wondering about the differences and improvements that have been made between these two models but have never had a chance to play either one.
Of special interest is comparison of mechanism performance and design and how well they speak and balance throughout the registers.
I’m looking to move up from my ’41 Conn low Eb model 484n Bass.
My well maintained old Conn has an early version of a double venting system so is not too bad, but I can still imagine something playing and sounding more open in the Clarion register.
I am not a classical or orchestra player, but like to use and explore the full range of the bass in jazz and spontaneous free improv.
I do put lots of time into traditional tone and technique exercises and etudes. Some of this has me wondering how much the older mechanism design might be holding me back.
Of course the expense of the Privilege is on my mind, yet I’d still consider it, but then the Series 9 might get me where I want to be.
Thanks for your help and input.
Di
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2024-02-23 21:29
I think that there's a model in between called the model 35; it goes to low Eb,
more modern yet still less expensive. Or better still, the model 37, which is "bassically" (lol) identical but goes down to low C.
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-02-23 22:38
I had some basses from different times, but although my experience is not so wide, I found that the older they are, the more defects they have regarding the keywork, eveness of sound, or both.
There is no game comparing a high-end contemporary bass with a '60s one, even of the same brand; there are too many improvements in sound and keywork.
Speaking of Selmer, I would not recommend anything earlier than the Model 35. About Buffet, nothing earlier than the Prestige
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-02-24 04:36
While there have been many improvements, I always loved the tone and playability of the earlier Selmers. I actually like that the mechanism is less cumbersome and more clarinet like. I have known many players who have used them and sound great on them and manage to play well in tune.
While the newer models have come a long way, I don't think you would go wrong with the series 9
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2024-02-24 05:03
Hi All,
I have owned both Selmer bass clarinet models. The Series 9 was a model 32 built about 1970. It was a trade-in from a local university and had an articulated C#/G# and the L side Ab/Eb. No cracks and it was a terrific instrument. (See the attached photo for a picture of the same model). It only went down to Low Eb. I never did get it repadded as it played great with a huge low end. But I still wanted a new bass since I had been playing for 80+ years and figured, why not!
My wife and I went to the Conn-Selmer plant in Elkhart and after several hours playing six different instruments, selected one, a new Privilege 65. It's a monster and plays well.
As far as getting a Low C bass, I passed on that quite a while ago. I play in a top-notch concert band that plays grade 5-6 music. I would have to think hard about the times I needed a Low C, Db, or D. In the clarinet quartet I play in, there are a few more instances of these low notes but there is usually a transposition up and octave.
The mouthpieces I used for these instruments were all classic Selmer Soloist C* refaced by the amazing David McClune.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2024-02-24 05:03
Hi All,
I have owned both Selmer bass clarinet models. The Series 9 was a model 32 built about 1970. It was a trade-in from a local university and had an articulated C#/G# and the L side Ab/Eb. No cracks and it was a terrific instrument.
It only went down to Low Eb. I never did get it repadded as it played great with a huge low end. But I still wanted a new bass since I had been playing for 80+ years and figured, why not!
My wife and I went to the Conn-Selmer plant in Elkhart and after several hours playing six different instruments, selected one, a new Privilege 65. It's a monster and plays well.
As far as getting a Low C bass, I passed on that quite a while ago. I play in a top-notch concert band that plays grade 5-6 music. I would have to think hard about the times I needed a Low C, Db, or D. In the clarinet quartet I play in, there are a few more instances of these low notes but there is usually a transposition up and octave.
The mouthpieces I used for these instruments were all classic Selmer Soloist C* refaced by the amazing David McClune.
Post Edited (2024-02-24 05:05)
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Author: zizala
Date: 2024-02-24 17:02
Thanks all for your thoughts and experience.....
Its occurred to me that the real comparison and what I decide comes down to whether the Series 9 bass is a significant enough improvement over my '41 Conn.
I suspect it will be but its not a given....the Conn was probably one of the better horns in its day and stands up pretty well considering its age and design, but I've gotten to a place in my playing where some of its shortcomings (not just mine!) are becoming obvious.
It looks like I'll get a chance to play the Series 9 for a week or so on approval.....so that will answer a lot of my questions if I go through with it.
The Privilege model 65 might still be on the horizon and might likely be the end all......but I'm on a fixed income so finding some satisfaction a step at at time might work out.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-02-24 22:09
How any of those compare with the Conn I can't say. I've never tried a Conn bass from the 40s. Considering it is from the early 40s, I can't imagine either Selmer wouldn't be a pretty big improvement but that's a guesstimate.
As far as the 60s Selmer vs. Privilege, I've tried several dozen Selmers from every decade, and more than a few Privileges (maybe 20 or so). In short, to me the Privilege is a huge improvement. It comes down mainly to two things.
First, some people just really like the way some of the older Selmers play. Usually not that old from the before the 70s, but some prefer a specific older model. This is personal and not something there's a way to know other than to try it. Looking at it statistically, it's a small minority anyway.
Second, cost. If you can afford it, I'd say it's not close (inside the little world of good bass clarinets). The Privilege is much better ergonomically, better design, more even between notes, better intonation and response along the entire range, etc. Whether the improvements are worth the higher cost is another personal choice that is impossible to say unless you try them. I'd say it's absolutely worth it but for some it's not.
Another thing to consider is the neck angle. The Privilege comes with the steeper angle neck. Most older Selmers had the shallower angle neck. You specifically order the Privilege with shallower neck (same as the 35/37 neck) but it's not standard, whatever that means for availability. If one angle is much more comfortable for you it can make a big difference too.
Post Edited (2024-02-25 08:47)
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2024-02-26 09:11
clarnibass wrote:
"Another thing to consider is the neck angle. The Privilege comes with the steeper angle neck. Most older Selmers had the shallower angle neck. You specifically order the Privilege with shallower neck(same as the 35/37 neck) but it's not standard, whatever that means for availability. If one angle is much more comfortable for you it can make a big difference too."
This is very true, though one correction: Although the older Selmers did have a shallower angle, it was NOT one single but actually at least 3 noticeably different ones(each ~10 degrees apart) that I've come across that fit both the Selmer 35/37 & Privilege(65/67) models(and the Series 9 & the Model 33 Mk2 albeit with a different linkage). That said, that specific shallower neck design you've mentioned is indeed still being made by Selmer today and can be specifically purchased in lieu of the steeper angled neck. But contrary to Hank, I actually prefer that shallower neck design, probably due to my 2mm underbite. Each to their own, I guess.
And another thing re: Selmer Series 9 VS Privilege- Some have commented that the various Selmer models(incl. the Series 9) preceding the Privilege tend to be more free-blowing(less resistant) and louder, with one colleague actually preferring the 37 over the Privilege for this very reason. When I was personally on the hunt for a 2nd hand Selmer Low C bass, I looked for both the 37 and the Privilege 67(which I ended up with) due to my familiarity with them & their better intonation & ergonomics, even though the 37's keywork is somewhat less efficient than the Privilege. However, during a brief test of a Series 9 bass I decided that it wasn't my horn as I didn't like the way it blew, but like for some other players you might prefer it, so all you can do is try as much as you can!
Josh
Post Edited (2024-04-14 22:21)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-02-26 12:08
To clarify, I didn't mean all older Selmers had the same neck or neck angle, just that they all had a relatively shallow angle when compared with the steeper neck of the Privilege.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2024-02-29 04:01
From my experience the 9s had really sharp B & C to compensate in the low register. Big fat sound though.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2024-02-29 05:56
clarnibass wrote:
> To clarify, I didn't mean all older Selmers had the same neck
> or neck angle, just that they all had a relatively shallow
> angle when compared with the steeper neck of the Privilege.
I see. Pardon me for being a little too pendantic!
Josh
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Author: eefer ★2017
Date: 2024-02-29 23:52
Before you spend a red cent, do yourself the favor of trying the new Royal Global basses. Intonation is spot on. They are all low C, as good as any bass by Selmer and Buffet, and they cost many *THOUSANDS* less. The new MAX is fabulous. Check them out at <clarinetworks.com> and <corbinclarinetproducts.com>. This is not an ad…..I own these instruments. They ARE eye-openingly amazing!
Nancy Buckman
Nancy Buckman
AACC Symphony Orchestra
Opera AACC
Early Music Society of Northern MD
(and a lot of other ensembles, too)
nebuckman@gmail.com
Post Edited (2024-03-01 00:01)
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