 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2024-02-09 23:45
Today I tried the Vandoren Carbon Ligature, which costs over 500 Euros.
Here's my review:
The ligature looks quite nice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-02-10 00:50
That's funny.
I've had good experience with carbon fiber in all its forms from Carbonissimo, Vandoren, Vientos Vintage, and one from Russia (can't recall the name right now).
Legere reeds gain more clarity of articulation and more vibrancy with carbon fiber as well as plastic and other such light polymer type materials.
Is it worth the added expense over a Luyben for example? I am not prepared to say that either........but they do look nice.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2024-02-10 01:12
I'm sure it's a good ligature. I've played many good ligatures over the years (many of which convinced me they were the future, and the fact that I don't use any of them anymore doesn't mean they're bad) and seen this or that come into "fad-favour". But I've never seen one worth 500E, that's a new level of ridiculousness and to be honest I"m never even going to try this one.
It makes me sad that there will be students conned into thinking they've got to pay E500 to have the best ligature.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-02-11 06:55
too bad lyben and gigillitoi never made bass ligatures. i also like plastic ligs when using legere also thanks to paul.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-02-11 10:40
I caught the New Year's Day concert from Vienna this year. 2 young clarinettists with no fancy barrels or ligatures. These offerings are rather like the builder who occasionaly quotes a ridiculous amount of money for a job just in case the customer naively accepts!
I'm sure the player may experience 'difference' with any change of ligature but that may not amount to better. What some inexperienced players perceive is purely down to having taken the reed off and put it back on again. A change is perceivable every time anyone does this.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2024-02-12 01:40
Given the prohibitive-and unjustified- price of this ligature, I see but one solution: selling one's clarinet in order to buy the ligature.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: symphony1010
Date: 2024-02-12 11:54
One thing we can be certain of is that it does not cost £500 to produce an item like this in carbon fibre. I think it's sad and does Vandoren no credit whatsoever.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2024-02-12 18:47
Symphony: Yet Vandoren products are usually rather reasonably priced. This isn't like them at all.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-02-12 21:16
My theory is that not only is the "market" geared toward charging more for this "exotic material," but Vandoren only meant for the Carbon ligature (at least this iteration) to be a limited run........and they want some of their R&D money back.
.............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2024-02-12 21:49)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JTJC
Date: 2024-02-12 23:16
You have to recognise when something is just overpriced and a con. I can't believe there was much R&D in this. VD probably bought CF ligatures from existing manufacturers and experimented a bit. Do VD actually make them or is that outsourced? I can't see it as good business sense for a reed company to invest in a CF manufacturing cabability when there are companies that do that very well already. It's very similar to their M|O ligatures and probably uses the same threaded nut. You wait until the VD Snake Oil for that screw comes out.
The fact the same manufacturer produces so many different products designed for exactly the same job says it all.
Liquorice was spot on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2024-02-13 01:54
Eric Black made a video about trying the carbon fiber ligature and other offerings. https://youtu.be/AVCfA1HCfmY?si=nm_VlmLSiAa9atc-
I largely agree with him. I was relieved not to want to buy carbon fiber ligature right away when I tried it.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-02-13 03:29
JTJC,
Interesting points. The M/O ligature uses the same reverse thread central bolt (let's not forget the same concept is used for the Optimum though that is clearly a thicker bolt). However the barrels through which it moves are much shorter on the Carbon then they are on the M/O.
There is no set thickness that is dictated for the carbon fiber material that one would use for a ligature. Vandoren's is the thinnest by far making it very flexible banding (holding the reed only at the very top and bottom of the stock.....it is essentially configured like the M/O). The Carbonissimo is a bit thicker, and it is a solid pouch. This makes the response and sound have a bit more "gravitas" for lack of a better term. The Russian ligature of which I spoke above is actually a series of 4 different solid rings (only the thinnest one could be characterized as flexible). They are made of gradually thicker (and heavier) versions of the carbon fiber material. That company's schtick is that you can make your softer reeds play like harder reeds with the thicker versions of the ligature, and you can make your harder reeds play like softer reeds with the ligatures of thinner material. That is quite interesting in itself because the Vandoren is the most "responsive" and "boomy" of the Carbon fiber ligatures.
The Vientos Vintage is an odd man out in that it just fuses carbon fiber material in with whatever polymer they use in their process to create their ligatures, so it is not truly a structurally carbon fiber ligature. That said they do work great when they are fitted properly with my Legeres (for solid ring ligatures I use a shim cut out of a correspondingly sized plastic cap of sorts to make the ligature fit where I want it along the length of the reed).
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lydian
Date: 2024-02-13 21:04
I found some rare footage of the development of this ligature in the Vandoren labs. It’s actually incredibly complicated to dip a piece of fabric into resin and put a huge price tag on it. There was months of engineering to make the price tag large enough to fit all the extra digits.
https://youtu.be/uJ3yqtu5Hgc
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2024-02-14 16:44
In the old days before you could get the Vandoren Optimum ligature in Black, I coloured one black with a sharpie pen and told several people (including at least one "pro player" from our NZ Navy band) that I had a prototype ligature made from "black silver".
One of my wife's students (who also ended up in the Navy band a year or so later) copied my idea and got out his black sharpie because he thought it looked cool.
When Vandoren brought out the Optimum lig in black, I couldn't help looking over my shoulder wondering if they'd stolen my idea somehow...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2024-02-15 16:35
And, in a lesson today just out of interest I tried out one of THESE...
< https://www.kbbmusic.co.nz/rico-ligature-and-cap-clarinet > (price in NZ$)
And was quite impressed, for a paltry $22 US$ it competes well with the Vandoren Masters (both single and double screw), BG Tradition, Various Bonades and my silver 2 screw customised by the guy who made the "One Ring" for LOTR.
NO ONE needs to spend 500E, sorry.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
