 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jacob R
Date: 2024-01-28 06:04
So, I have made many post about this topic, but never included a recording of how I sound. I just need advice to have a clear tone that sounds excellent. This can be irrelevant to the post, but I know that I produce a lot of spit when I play my instrument. So much so that after rehearsing in my high school band period, my instrument tends to be leaking spit from the bell and drips a lot on the ground. I was thinking that my tone sounds “spitty” because if this and just need advice to prevent this from happening. I can say for sure that condensation does not play a key role in this issue.^ Shoot me with advice please and thank you for spending your time on my post. 🙏🏼 (if anyone cares to know my set up, it is an R13 Buffet Crampon clarinet with Vandoren BD4 Series 13 with a V12 Strength 3 Vandoren reed. sorry if intonation is foul in recording as I have not properly tuned…)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-28 08:48
First of all your tone sounds awfully good to me! I wonder if you could be more specific about what you like about your sound and what you don't like.
I don't hear any "spittiness" in your recording. However if you seem to get that crackily sort of sound as you play I might suggest what the basic sound is a balance between embouchure support and air. Naturally you use one more than the other depending on dynamic and the specific note you're playing. So within that balance I'd say you can try consciously using more AIR than EMBOUCHURE than you normally do. This might help that issue.
As for moisture within the clarinet, it is no different than the water that accumulates on the outside of a glass of ice tea (and for the same reasons).
.............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2024-01-28 08:50)
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Author: Jacob R
Date: 2024-01-28 11:15
Thank you for this advice and I will try to apply it tomorrow when I practice. One thing I dislike about my tone is that, in my opinion, it sounds airy/ spitty and I compare myself to other people I have heard and their tone is just something out if this world!
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-01-28 11:39
The impression that their sound is wanting can often derive from the fact that a musician has in fact developed a better ear.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-01-28 12:44
Jacob R wrote:
> One thing I dislike about my tone is that, in
> my opinion, it sounds airy/ spitty and I compare myself to
> other people I have heard and their tone is just something out
> if this world!
I agree with Paul - whatever you're unhappy with in your tone doesn't come through on your recording, which suggests other people listening to you from any distance don't hear it, either.
I'm not sure why you say so confidently that "condensation does not play a key role in this issue." Water in the clarinet and even inside the mouthpiece is typically almost all condensation from the breath, not saliva. If water (whatever its source) on the back of your reed is a problem, take the reed off every so often and wipe the water off the back. Or in a pinch (until you can take the reed off and blot it dry) carefully slide a piece of not-too-thin paper into the opening between the reed and the mouthpiece and pull it out while gently (so the paper doesn't tear) pressing the reed against it.
Karl
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-01-28 14:22
That people feel their sound is somehow below par with their fellow musicians is something which comes up quite frequently on this forum and I suspect that in most cases this is just an illusion derived from which end of the horn you're on.
The typical road towards excellence is paved with a good deal of cynical and often uncharitable self judgment. It's a driver but potentially also a source of frustration and demoralization.
If one is playing for an audience, then the candid opinion of trusted colleagues has likely got greater merit than one's own. If they do offer any criticisms then those are likely more constructive than ones self perceived ones .
These are the people to ask, perhaps overcoming the fear that they are going to tell you you suck.( most unlikely)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2024-01-28 21:07
I agree with Paul, kdk, and Julian.
What Julian shared (about the road towards excellence, and playing for an audience) - once realized - can be transformational.
Many of us had to discover this the hard way.
If this does not apply specifically to you, JacobR, then hopefully someone else coming across this thread in the future will save themselves years of frustration by reading Julian's kind and well-said words.
Your tone sounded clear to me.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
Post Edited (2024-01-28 21:08)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-28 23:19
More specifically the clear, distinct transitions from note to note make it clear to me that you are playing quite well.
I've told this story before but........here goes.
I colleague of mine (already sitting in a good place in a good symphony) was trying a different mouthpiece in orchestra. To him he thought it sounded too harsh. He said it was as if bees were buzzing in his head. HOWEVER, several unsolicited opinions came to him from other members complimenting him on how well he sounded and how much more present his sound was that evening.
There is the very REAL idea that you should learn how to achieve what sounds wonderful to those ten feet or more away from you. Often it DOES NOT line up with what sounds the very best to you.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Patrick
Date: 2024-01-29 05:37
You have a nice sound. It sounds like you could use more air to push through some of the phrasing points. The only question I would ask is if your setup makes it easy to express your musical ideas? IMHO V12’s were too wide and resistant for me and switching to different cuts of reeds helped me. Keep up the great work.
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Author: psmartin
Date: 2024-01-29 06:15
Overall nice tone, but I hear what I call the "air" in what you are talking about. I have found this to be a byproduct of certain reeds and have even experienced it with a mouthpiece.
I find that by taking a new box of reeds and soaking them in water and playing through each of them I can then find the ones that are more prone to this. These are find for practice, but are not the reeds that I would utilize for a performance. In the end I might have 3 to 4 reeds out of a box 10 that fall into this category.
Paul
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Author: brycon
Date: 2024-01-29 06:18
Perhaps some of the things you experience don't come through a recording so much and in person might be more noticeable?
At any rate, from this recording, much more pressing issues than tone would be intonation and expression. Throat tones, for instance, tend to go flat when you push more air (those repeated Fs get progressively lower in pitch) and clarion notes go sharp when you taper (the final D to C). These pitch issues could point to some underlying fundamental things with your air, oral cavity, core muscles, etc. you could work on.
In terms of expression, there is no direction or air shape to the phrases.
It's easy to get fixated on tone. Maybe you hear some other players whom you admire and wish you could sound like them. But tone isn't just how "good" you sound when playing a long tone. A player's phrase shapes, intonation, legato, etc. are all a part of what we hear in a player's sound. Maybe by redirecting your mental efforts here, you'll get to a place with your tone that you feel happy about?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-01-29 13:08
I think that Brycon makes a good point .
When we hear the playing of someone we admire and whose sound we aspire to, we likely miss certain elements of the recipe much like we would if we were trying to reproduce some great dish from tastings it. If one plays and records a passage of music so one can then compare it along side that of a musician one would aspire to, then what's truly absent from one's own playing is likely more evident than playing with that sound one wants to achieve as a concept in the mind.
This experiment can seriously rearrange one's " To do" list.
Forgive us if we are largely shooting wide for you here Jacob, but as this topic sort of comes up quite a lot, its maybe a good opportunity to offer thoughts for all.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: txhammer
Date: 2024-01-30 21:17
You’ve received some excellent advice in this thread from clarinetists far more experienced than I, but I wanted to chime in because as an amateur clarinetist returning to the instrument after a 10-year hiatus, I too sometimes struggle with a “spitty” tone. (Your tone sounds quite good to my ear, but I’ve found that the spitty quality doesn’t always manifest itself in recordings of my playing; the same might be occurring here.)
After some trial and error, I’ve discovered the spitty sound is usually (in my case, at least) a result of blowing with slow, warm air from my upper chest instead of fast, cool air from my diaphragm. As was suggested in multiple previous posts in this thread, try using more air support.
One factor that might come into play here is the resistance (or lack thereof) of your setup. Like you, I play an R-13 and sometimes use a BD4. For me, a strength 3 V-12 reed would be too soft on that mouthpiece. Perhaps try using a good 3.5 V-12, as this would require more air support to generate a satisfactory tone. It’s also possible this would exacerbate the problem, but I had success with introducing more resistance into my setup, and increasing reed strength is the easiest (and cheapest) way to accomplish this.
Additional things you might wish to try (some of which were mentioned by previous posters):
— Use a high tongue position (think “eee”).
— Ensure your embouchure is firm (without biting).
— Exert continuous upward pressure with your right thumb.
— Experiment with taking in more mouthpiece.
— Experiment with the angle of your head and the angle at which you hold the clarinet.
Again, I’m not a professional, so take the above advice for what it’s worth. Best of luck to you, my friend!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-31 00:09
I wanted to engage on a few points above that are more illustrative than actually accurate (warm air/cold air......etc) but the only one that I can't let go is the idea that there is anything about "pushing up with the thumb" that can be helpful.
I KNOW that no one less than Tom Ridenour has spoken about "pushing up with the right thumb" when referring to double lip embouchure and "tucking in" the upper lip. HOWEVER, you can, and should do EVERYTHING you need to do with the embouchure without causing any more stress upon the thumb. And just to be clear I see "pushing up" with the thumb as a purely detrimental action. DON'T DO IT.
Oh, and just try that on bass clarinet
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2024-01-31 08:12
Paul,
Quote:
I see "pushing up" with the thumb as a purely detrimental action. DON'T DO IT.
Well, surely, pushing downward would have its shortcomings. Haha!
(Please forgive me, but I don't understand your viewpoint about the upward thumb pressure as being detrimental.)
If not using a neckstrap, and not resting the clarinet bell on your knee...what upward pressure do you personally use to prevent the clarinet from crashing to the earth?
I don't personally use a neckstrap or my knee. I've used my thumb to carry the weight of the clarinet my entire life. No detriment.
I'd suggest that playing clarinet requires the player to exert continual upward pressure to counter the continual downward pressure/pull of gravity. If not the thumb...what are you suggesting is the proper method? Even the knee and neckstrap provide only rough approximations of the proper lift, and are fine-tuned by the thumb's lift.
I don't think I could hold the weight of my clarinet for very long using my embouchure alone! Hahaha! Look, Ma...no hands!!!
I'm genuinely interested in any clarification you might offer.
Warmest Regards,
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-31 08:46
It does seem that there may be some confusion.
The previous post mentions ADDING pressure to your embouchure by actively pushing up on the clarinet........not just holding it in place.
I also credited the noble opposing view from Tom Ridenour. This is an intrinsic part of his method of double lip embouchure. He refers to the pressure of the top lip as "snugging" which comes from below (your thumb).
I find that there are enough ways to cause unnecessary strain to the hand without adding an active "push" against your mouth. So, yes please, don't do it.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2024-01-31 10:56
Thanks Paul,
I had a feeling that's more what you were referring to, but I appreciate the clarification.
Thanks!
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2024-01-31 20:18
Try to play with earplugs in. The (now awful) sound you hear, reaches your ears by conduction of your jaw and skull. Evidently, this is only audible by you. But this buzzy tone is also present in the sound you hear when playing without earplugs, which is a mix of sound conducted and sound coming through the air.
The difference (what you hear without plugs minus your experience with plugs) is what your neighbours hear.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-01-31 22:08
Well...............
I appreciate where you're coming from on that, however there is more to "sound that travels."
It even surprised me after an almost two year hiatus from playing amongst people (due to Covid). I was sitting next to someone who is clearly a really competent player and I thought to myself, "oh that's a decent sound, but nothing to write home about." But when the rest of the group played, and that person had an accompanied solo (also there was a seating adjustment with that person moving about five people over) the sound blossomed into something quite extraordinary. I'm sure that if I charged through fifty years without a break I probably wouldn't even have noticed, just took it for granted as the sounds of rehearsal. But I challenge others to look for similar scenarios and (sit next to a known great player and really listen, then go back to a further orientation.......for example) see what sonic differences you can pick out.
..............Paul Aviles
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