 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-05 04:17
I didn't have the new database securely buttoned up for a couple hours, and some nefarious soul deleted all the databases. I have the backups again, but they're out of date. And there are some other services I need to restore.
Badness comes in waves ...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-05 05:17
That was only after my massive screwup trying to update the db software. Been doing this king of stuff for well over 40 years, and like I had mentioned in an earlier but now deleted post - hubris gets all of us at some time or another.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-12-05 08:49
Still glad you’re doing better health wise. Sorry that the whatchmadoogie is still messing up the doohickey.
…………….Paul Aviles
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-05 11:05
Blimey, that was really bad luck. Glad it came back for you. If it all goes wrong again, don't worry about it. We will all just be sitting here quietly and patiently. No rush at all.
If it's getting to be a massive faff, maybe we could pay a fee to belong and you could outsource some of it?
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Author: Ed
Date: 2023-12-05 15:51
Mark- thanks for all that you have done over the many years and for all you continue to do to make this site the best resource for clarinet
Be well
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-06 00:23
Hacked during the hour or so the system was open (root database was passwordless and open to the internet for an hour). The databases were deleted so I lost a couple hours of posts - They left a "message" database saying that they had deleted all the databases and I could get them back for some hellacious amount of bitcoin. Fixed that hole - part was easy (put all the old users in) and then I had to firewall the DB - "can't get the'ya from he'ye" anymore and automatically firewalling people who try to get in "illegally" (fail2ban is a great addition - not perfect but close).
There's more, but now at least I'm not panicking. Just FYI - EVERY system exposed to the public Internet has the same problems. The new server was under casual attack less than a minute after I got a bare server up. Thousands of probes an hour within a couple of hours. We're now back to a nice steady 30,000 hits an hour trying to break in. Pretty much that's consistent through all 3 servers that comprise woodwind.org.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2023-12-06 01:49
Mark,
Great work. Thanks so much.
I used to do Firewall work for Checkpoint. I was a beta site for Checkpoint, Microsoft and Lotus Domino (back in the day). Since I was an "ethical hacker" at the time (before it was a certification class) the vendors liked my spare systems.
But nowadays the hacking is so intensive that security services are just trying to catch up.
Good work, thanks.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Ed
Date: 2023-12-06 02:07
Mark- Wow! I knew hacking was a serious problem, but had no idea it was to that scale.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-06 09:06
Blimey, I had no idea it was so intense. Well done for keeping on top of it. I heard similar stories when I was working at EMBL-EBI but I didn't work on that side of things, thank goodness.
It makes me realise that it's very important to keep a copy of the email addresses of people on the list who are important to me. It's quite strange to have friends vanish like that, with no way of getting in touch again.
While the forum was down I had a few emails back and forth with people I talk a lot to on the list and it was kind of funny. A bit like talking tentatively to office mates in the dark, when the lights have gone out during a powercut.
It's an enormous relief to be able to "see" each other again.
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Author: RKing
Date: 2023-12-06 20:40
Glad to see the forum is back!
I was at a loss when all I got was a blank screen a for a few days.
Ron
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-12-06 21:23
The period of time without the clarinet board left me actually more appreciative of the work that goes into maintaining it and keeping it free of hackers. Thank you Mr. Charette for the time you put into this endeavor.
With this said, and perhaps it is me, I'm finding the board's search facility to be unresponsive--which is so unlike its normal lightning fast search time (IMO one of the board's best features.) I seem to recall reading from you that the various data structures that facilitate this fast search turn around time trade off larger file size for faster user response--and maybe the re-compilation of these search indexes still remains on your to do list and is an otherwise time intensive endeavor, even if computer generated, given their size.
Allow me to segue this discussion into a more sensitive one. Let me predicate it with recognizing your right to tell me to "blow off."
Without question, this board is your creation: your baby. If I am to understand the history correctly, your then young son's passion for clarinet, and your desire to find commonality with him and his interests, many moons ago, when the internet was younger, in fact when we all were younger, found you leveraging technical skills you possess towards creating this endeavor. Since then it has quite literally become, without even close comparison, the world's largest resource for clarinet based information. And I think it is something that needs to be preserved beyond the lifespan of any one person.
Now make no mistake, maybe such provisions are well in the works by you, better still, they're a whole lot of nobody's business but yours. The right to shut the lights off on this resource permanently, at any time and for any reason, much that so many of us hope you won't, is yours to claim. What better reason than your recent health episodes might find you needing to prioritizing serving your best health interests over our desire to chat.
And still more I'm all but certain this endeavor is far more the labor of love: the often at times thankless and unappreciated obligation than it is anything but a cash cow for you. Member's dues, sponsorship dollars: I can't imagine the latter, given the relatively small marketplace that is clarinet players, much breaking the bank for you.
Have you ever considered (I'm not a member, I have no horse in this race) selling this board to say, the ICA, or some other institution that, as institutions go, can survive the lifespan of any single member?
I fully realizing that this discussion not only raises the sensitivity of people's mortality, but the loss of certain things with age. I'm sure you've thought about this and owe none of us an answer here.
May your recent health concerns prove nothing but mere transient occurrences we can joke about later.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-06 21:42
SecondTry wrote:
> With this said, and perhaps it is me, I'm finding the board's
> search facility to be unresponsive--which is so unlike its
> normal lightning fast search time (IMO one of the board's best
> features.)
It's broken - it was running on the db server that was replaced. It'll be down for a bit longer. I have the software - the trick is to integrate it again.
>
> Without question, this board is your creation: your baby. If I
> am to understand the history correctly, your then young son's
> passion for clarinet, and your desire to find commonality with
> him and his interests, many moons ago, when the internet was
> younger, in fact when we all were younger, found you leveraging
> technical skills you possess towards creating this endeavor.
> Since then it has quite literally become, without even close
> comparison, the world's largest resource for clarinet based
> information. And I think it is something that needs to be
> preserved beyond the lifespan of any one person.
... agreed ...
... it is anything but a cash cow for
> you. Member's dues, sponsorship dollars: I can't imagine the
> latter, given the relatively small marketplace that is clarinet
> players, much breaking the bank for you.
Those annoying Google ads and occasional donations from the Woodwind Fingering Guide pay for the hardware rental costs. Mostly.
> Have you ever considered (I'm not a member, I have no horse in
> this race) selling this board to say, the ICA, or some other
> institution that, as institutions go, can survive the lifespan
> of any single member?
We've talked a few times in the distant past. Nothing really came of it. The few people who actually talked to me seriously over time gave up when they saw the size of all the pieces and the amount of time it takes when things go wrong. When everything is running along hunky-dory it's just reading posts every day (Karl & I do that) to make sure things don't get too out of whack. When things go awry I can put in a few 40 hour weeks straitening things out.
> I fully realizing that this discussion not only raises the
> sensitivity of people's mortality, but the loss of certain
> things with age. I'm sure you've thought about this and owe
> none of us an answer here.
Hell, I'm almost 70 now, and I think I started this when I was in my early 40s. It was just a simple posting site and running the Klarinet mailing list for fun. The Klarinet mailing lists emails have been preserved here (I miss Dan Leeson) and then the actual BBoard started as a replacement - the age of email based BBoards had passed. Now there's plenty of "competitors" like a few on Facebook, but there's a lot of information - and inertia - here.
> May your recent health concerns prove nothing but mere
> transient occurrences we can joke about later.
Thank you. They are but glitches in the human Matrix.
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Author: Claudia Zornow
Date: 2023-12-07 05:29
> Hell, I'm almost 70 now, and I think I started this when I was in my early 40s.
> It was just a simple posting site and running the Klarinet mailing list for fun.
> The Klarinet mailing lists emails have been preserved here (I miss Dan Leeson)
> and then the actual BBoard started as a replacement - the age of email based
> BBoards had passed. Now there's plenty of "competitors" like a few on
> Facebook, but there's a lot of information - and inertia - here.
I remember those days, and Dan's inimitable presence, too. Once we had a Klarinet lunch get-together in the SF Bay Area, which both Dan and I attended. Good memories.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2023-12-07 18:17
Could we go back to the original way of displaying messages? This sort of tanned format I find annoying as you don't see all of the issues together. That's what I HATE about the oboe BBoard and therefore rarely use it.
THANKS!!!
Eefer guy
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-12-07 18:51
Ebclarinet1 wrote:
> Could we go back to the original way of displaying messages?
> This sort of tanned format I find annoying as you don't see all
> of the issues together. That's what I HATE about the oboe
> BBoard and therefore rarely use it.
I'm seeing the same display I've always seen - I use the threaded view. What do mean by "tanned format?"
Karl
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2023-12-07 19:26
Eefer Guy,
Just go to the bottom of the messages and before reply and you can see where to change the view of posts/threads.
HRL
Post Edited (2023-12-07 19:41)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-07 20:23
I understand the amount of work involved because my husband used to run a service like this for fun, and it seemed be guaranteed to go wrong at moments when real life was also extremely busy.
It really does take a very dedicated individual to run a system like this and step up when everything goes wrong. That's just the technical side, and is before we even start thinking about the work to sort out disagreements on the forum.
The ICA has a discussion forum but you have to be a paid member to contribute and so it has far fewer members and much less traffic.
I wonder if there might be other folks on the list who have the technical know-how to step up and be the back-up to Mark and be trained in how to run the system so he's not the only one?
It seems as though there is a such a lot of amazing information on here, and it is 100% worth setting up a system to keep it going for another 25 or 50 years.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-12-07 21:24
SunnyDaze wrote:
> I understand the amount of work involved because my husband
> used to run a service like this for fun, and it seemed be
> guaranteed to go wrong at moments when real life was also
> extremely busy.
>
> It really does take a very dedicated individual to run a system
> like this and step up when everything goes wrong. That's just
> the technical side, and is before we even start thinking about
> the work to sort out disagreements on the forum.
>
> The ICA has a discussion forum but you have to be a paid member
> to contribute and so it has far fewer members and much less
> traffic.
>
> I wonder if there might be other folks on the list who have the
> technical know-how to step up and be the back-up to Mark and be
> trained in how to run the system so he's not the only one?
>
> It seems as though there is a such a lot of amazing information
> on here, and it is 100% worth setting up a system to keep it
> going for another 25 or 50 years.
Jennifer:
Much that I don't know the technical contingency plans, if any, that Mr. Charette has in place to reduce his time commitment to this board--any more than they are any of my business-- I must confess that the only thing I feel more strongly about than a desire to implement your continuity idea is my belief, sadly, that it won't be viable.
Running this site takes a level of dedication, a time commitment away from endeavors that actually "pay the rent," and is otherwise anything but lucrative, such that a person would have to have a dedication to not simply clarinet but this bboard, as if it were their child: a (metaphorical) role only Mr. Charette can claim.
In my pipe dream, which is neither under my control nor should be: it is 100% Mr. Charette's call, an organization like the ICA might make some arrangement, hopefully one that is lucrative to Mr. Charette (and 100% his choice) although I have my doubts, that would agree to assume this bboard and its content, and agree to throw the $ at it to keep it running and maintained for an agreed upon period of time, likely charging some fee for its use to members; perhaps including it with ICA membership.
The ICA--and of course it need not be them as much as I feel them most appropriate--is rightfully pensive about assuming the roll of providing clarinet goods and services normally made available through private vendors, including this bboard. In an example taken to its extremes, imagine if the ICA bought out Selmer Paris Clarinets. Of course it isn't going to happen for both financial reasons and those I'm about to cite: but then clarinet makers like Yamaha, Backun and Buffet, for example, might think twice about offering the very sponsorship dollars to the ICA it needs, given the ICA's fiduciary (conflict of) interest in one particular clarinet maker.
That was an extreme example. The clarinet bboard is a resource more than maker of product. And it has no competition to speak of. It only stays afloat due to the 30 year dedication of one man whose niche market simply doesn't command the audience, and commensurate financial worth of a Facebook, for example.
May Mr. Charette and this bboard maintain its health for many years into the future.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-07 21:58
Hi SecondTry,
Sorry, I think I might have put my foot in it with my previous post, but my head is terribly full from real life stuff and I'm struggling to figure it out.
I just meant to agree really with you, that it's a wonderful resource and 100% worth keeping going forever, in any way that Mr Charette is happy with. Is that an okay way to say it?
Sorry, if I got my words tangled.
Jennifer
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-07 22:43
Thanks for the support. I think I'll put the daily database dump out in a public area soon (with the exception of the users table) - the databases are relatively straightforward and someone might try migrating them to something less clunky. Also, should something unexpectedly happen to me, at least the data will survive for quite a while.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-10 04:31
Hi Mark,
That sounds like a really good backup plan. Might it be possible for someone like Karl to have a backup copy of the user list, and a contact address for someone who is there where you are in RL?
It feels quite alarming to suddenly lose touch with so many people at once, and to be wondering if you yourself are okay. Seems like having a back up copy of the email address list, and someone we can write to if you vanish, would be a really good idea.
I told my husband what you said about the zillions of attacks per hour and he said "yeah that would be right" just as if it was non-news. I had no idea you had so much to contend with. Definitely an eye-opener here.
Jennifer
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-10 15:23
Hi Mark,
I wondered if it would be okay to ask a bit more about the technical underpinnings of the BBoard?
I was thinking about what you said about putting the daily database dump out in a public area in case the board needed to be migrated, and that does sound good.
I'm only a bit worried that nobody on the list has said "good idea, I would be able to do that migration if needed".
I'm just thinking - if I'm the only other computer bod here, would it be okay if I ask for a little bit more information about what such a migration would involve, just so we have a continuity plan in case it is needed?
I looked online and found this page here: https://www.hostinger.co.uk/tutorials/best-forum-software
Are these the kind of software packages that would work for your database?
I used to work in bioinformatics and I know quite basic java and perl and I know how to query databases, but I've never run one or set one up, and I wouldn't know where to start with the security stuff that you were talking about.
I'm wondering if maybe some of these database solutions come with the security built in?
I have a blog that I run on google blogger and it basically does everything for me under the hood. I'm wondering if the safe option for the BBoard might be to plan to migrate it to some system like that, that would just do everything for us? That could even be done soon, so you could still run it, but have much less work to do to keep it going.
Thanks, and sorry for random fretting. It's all a bit alarming when the BBoard just goes away like that.
Thanks!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-10 16:49
More reading done, and I wondered if this vBulletinSolo is the right kind of thing?
https://www.kualo.co.uk/webhosting/vbulletin-hosting
Adult learner, Grade 3
Equipment: Yamaha Custom CX Bb, Fobes 10K CF mp,
Legere Soprano Sax American Cut #2, Vandoren Optimum German Lig.
Post Edited (2023-12-10 17:04)
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2023-12-10 20:03
Thank you Mark for all your hard work !!! I am so relieved the board is back, the exchanges of info (and opinions) and all the history are precious ! Judy
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-11 19:58
SunnyDaze wrote:
> More reading done, and I wondered if this vBulletinSolo is the
> right kind of thing?
>
> https://www.kualo.co.uk/webhosting/vbulletin-hosting
>
Off-line, please. I've been looking at this for many years. We will not use a hosted BBoard - even big companies that have hosted BBoards go out of business without warning. Google Picasso is disappearing - I just offloaded a bunch of pictures off of it.
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2023-12-13 04:35
Say, I have a side question. How come I never get e-mail replies even though I check the box everytime I post?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-14 22:26
Johnny Galaga wrote:
> Say, I have a side question. How come I never get e-mail
> replies even though I check the box everytime I post?
Probably broken ...
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-12-15 04:14
Mark:
If you don't know that's fine but sometimes it takes quite a few attempts for me to be granted access here despite knowing I entered my user name and password correctly.
Perhaps this is a product of the fail2ban software you mentioned prior and its relationship with the Google Chrome browser???
I wonder if others experience this too.
Post Edited (2023-12-15 04:15)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-12-15 05:13
Can't say I've ever had a problem logging on during the approximately 15 years I've been here.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-12-15 13:48
I don't think I've had a problem. Sometimes I can't log in but I through the "I forgot my password" routine and then I always get in.
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2023-12-15 15:27
I've never had a problem logging in to this site, despite multiple re-installations of my operating systems over the years. The only problem I've encountered is that sometimes this site is a bit slow to respond.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-15 18:24
> Perhaps this is a product of the fail2ban software you
> mentioned prior and its relationship with the Google Chrome
> browser???
Nope. Fail2ban works on people trying to log into the server, not the website, and if you're on that list you can't see the website at all. Most of the time people having trouble logging in have done a cut and paste and don't notice a trailing space got included.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-12-15 20:08
Mark Charette wrote:
>
> > Perhaps this is a product of the fail2ban software you
> > mentioned prior and its relationship with the Google Chrome
> > browser???
>
> Nope. Fail2ban works on people trying to log into the into the
> server, not the website, and if you're on that list you can't
> see the website at all. Most of the time people having trouble
> logging in have done a cut and paste and don't notice a
> trailing space got included.
Trailing space..hmm...that could be it..thanks.
....a function of the browser's autofill and my lazy willingness to accept it might find it entering the user name, for example, SecondTry_ ... where the underscore is a space, rather than my truncated-of-spaces user name. 
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Author: moma4faith
Date: 2023-12-16 00:12
Ransomeware is on the rise here lately and the criminals are going after companies and forums, along with everything else. A non traceable money app should be outlawed. I'm starting to think the cyber-defense companies we pay to deal with these crimes are in on the scam.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2023-12-19 21:19
Mark-- Will you be able to fix it so the site works in the wee hours?
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-12-20 11:30
Damn those night cleaners pushing their trolley past the wall plug.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-12-20 21:54
Tom H wrote:
> Mark-- Will you be able to fix it so the site works in the wee
> hours?
>
It doesn't not work in the wee hours afaik
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Author: Bonnie
Date: 2023-12-21 05:38
I'm so happy to see the BB up and running again! Thank you Mark for all your years of hard work on this BB and the Klarinet email list.
bdskees@comcast.net
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The Clarinet Pages
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