 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2023-11-24 16:23
My Bb is a standard Buffet R13 from the late '60's. By my count it has 15 tone holes in the upper joint and 9 in the lower. I would like to know the location of each hole along the length of the instrument and the hole diameter. If necessary, I'll remove the keys and fiddle with a tape-measure, but if the info is already available then that would be much preferred.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-25 04:33
I wonder if you could provide some context for the information. I also wonder if you are going to take the bore dimensions at various points along the length into consideration as well as the extent or lack of undercutting?
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-11-25 12:33
As far as I know what you are asking for is not easily available, even more so for a specific clarinet from a certain period i.e. even if it was, maybe yours was made days before or after a change.
As far as measuring, depending on why you need the measurements, using a tape measure could be way overkill or nowhere near accurate enough.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevesklar
Date: 2023-11-25 18:05
Attachment: ClarinetBBoard_tonehole.jpg (305k)
I have a spreadsheet full of measurements (see excerpt attachment) from tone hole locations from the top of the joint to include the overcut and central cylinder (for instruments with overcut). The undercut is very hard to measure as the cut is in a cylinder. I also used to do bore measurements using a shotgun bore measuring tool.
You have to use good quality calipers not a tape measure. And you have to not just do one as your technique may make the measurements off, you have to do many and build a technique for it.
I have some of that stuff on my YouTube channel and the measurements I think are on my google drive for the YT channel.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
Post Edited (2023-11-25 18:07)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-25 21:07
Ok, that's impressive Stephen. How do you put this information to use?
..............Paul
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevesklar
Date: 2023-11-25 21:54
Paul,
I used to make barrels. To do that I measured many barrels - Moening, Chadash, etc etc. This allows you to understand the design characteristics of them but then you have to improve your own ability of recognizing those tonal and response characteristics (including how texture affects it).
Then I wanted to start making recorders and then try making a clarinet (which I never did). But to do that I wanted to understand the idiosyncrasies of what makes a clarinet respond and have certain tonal and playing qualities compared to other ones.
To understand that granularly, you have to understand the detail design specifications. Thus all the measurements.
I also did that with saxophones. I have measurements of various ones too including, for instance, details of the transition from the late mk 6 to the mk 7.
It gets to a point where you can understand how an instrument should respond and sound based upon one's understanding of its design. This led for a while of repairs places sending me instruments that weren't quite 100% then I would figure out why. Such as micro-fissures in tonehole chimneys and other oddities such as a parallel grain layer crack in an upper joint which acting like a hidden away leak.
At first it looks like a bunch of calculations, but as you alluded too you can also use it to improve one's understanding.
Steve
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-25 22:20
That’s quite involved. I certainly appreciate the dedication that takes!
…………Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevesklar
Date: 2023-11-25 23:02
It was actually quite a learning experience / journey.
Back when Backun was making custom/fat barrels and bells for Leblanc USA
got me interesting in making barrels.
I experimented with various woods.
The attached (see next post for the attachment)
top left is a fat African Blackwood.
Below it is a thin rosewood (I forgot exactly which type).
But the rosewood one when thick sounded nice.
Then I threw it on the lathe and thinned it down. a few minutes had passed but now that barrel (whose internal dimension did not change) now sounded very poor.
2nd from left is an African Blackwood "blank" with the internal finished, just the outside is still a rough cylinder. Sound perfection fine like the one to it's left.
Other barrels I made from a variety of rosewoods and I think the 2nd from bottom left is boxwood.
The two on the right has a "blank" on top and a finished one below it. Those are in Mopani. I thought Mopani was an excellent wood decades ago.
The rosewoods, when tested in a submersion oil test did not fair well vs Blackwoods, etc. So I figured they might not make a good clarinet barrel in respect to water penetration and require a good sealant otherwise may more easily crack. I used to do wood bowls, pens, and stuff so I was familiar with turning down woods. The internal dimensions though had to be very accurate so I had a local reamer company make me custom reams for the sockets and stuff. They also made me an adjustable ream to change internal tapers for testing.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
Post Edited (2023-11-25 23:12)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: eirajeremy
Date: 2024-01-31 13:08
I'm seeking details on the location and diameter of each tone hole on my late '60s Buffet R13 clarinet. If anyone has this information readily available for, it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, I'm prepared to measure manually if needed.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2024-02-01 17:23
Hi eirajeremy. Stevesklar posted a partial list in a jpg above, including relevant data for a number of Buffets (with their serial numbers.) Try emailing him - he was helpful to me.
A few observations . . .
You can't play a note with all the holes open on a standard Boehm, unless you allow for quarter-tones.
There are three ringed holes whose rings also operate another pad just up from the hole, so two adjacent holes are managed at once, almost like one big hole. For each, you can close the pad hole alone if your want, but you can't close the ring hole alone, unless you use something smaller enough than a finger to close the hole without depressing its ring.
My R13s' lh Eb/Bb sliver key hole is positioned a bit higher on the instrument body than the rh 1st trill key, which is used for the same notes. That positioning difference would indicate that the lh fingering should be a bit sharper than the rh one, but the opposite is the case: rh is in tune, lh is flat. Hole location doesn't tell the whole story of pitch.
There are changes in bore diameter along the length of the R13. Changes to the pattern of tone hole spacings along the body may be reflecting bore diameter changes.
These things are of interest because there is an engineering component to making one's tone or fingering choices.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
