The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2023-11-17 03:53
I'm on U. S. Eastern time and right now it's 18:53 hours on Thursday, November 16, 2023. So how come I'm seeing timestamps on people's posts that show different times and a date of "2023-11-17"? It's not tomorrow yet !
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-11-17 05:36
Ask somebody to post a winning lottery number from the future, and you'll be rich!
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-17 10:30
If you wake In the morning and your day isn't looking good, its because we were joy-ridding with it here in Europe during the night.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-17 13:04
I tried to work it out:
If it's 18:53 EDT with you then that is the same as 23:53 GMT where I am in the UK.
I think that means that someone must have posted just before you who was to the east of me by at least one hour.
I think that means that it could have been somebody living in Central European Time, which includes people in these countries:
Albania, Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Kosovo, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain (except Canary Islands), Sweden, Switzerland and Vatican City. (from wikipedia)
Or it could have been someone further east.
Is that right? I want to say that I haven't had my coffee yet, but honestly there is no amount of coffee that would make me figure this stuff out completely reliably.
There are people on the forum from all over the world so it's not in one specific timezone. There's a thread somewhere that says where everyone is located, but I can't find it.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-17 20:08
I am not implying that the server is in Dubai, (GFT: Gulf Standard Time) just that Dubai is 9 hours ahead of NY as is the difference in time between my prior post and when the server registered that post.
Who knows if the server has accurate time for its time zone. My servers at work would record everything in GMT (Greenwich Mean Time), as is the aeronautical standard.
GFT = GMT + 4
Post Edited (2023-11-17 20:09)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-17 20:58
The whole time zone thing is particularly complicated for Londoners, living as they do in a city divided in half by the Greenwich Meridian. If you live in West London and have an appointment in East London, you have to remember to leave home an hour early. However, if it's the other way round then you need to leave home one hour late.
It is a bit hard on the poor old Londoners, which is probably why they named it "Greenwich mean time".
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-17 21:03
This post is at 17:03 on 17/11/2023 in GMT, 56 miles directly north of Greenwich.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-17 21:07
If the server records the time two hours ahead of me, does that mean that it is Eastern European Standard Time, along with Libya, Ukraine and Finland?
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2023-11-17 22:52
In NS we are on Atlantic Standard Time, an hour later ahead of EST. So it is tomorrow here first.
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Post Edited (2023-11-17 22:53)
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-18 00:54
Okay, you asked....
Jennifer, Tom H is in Nova Scotia, which is part of Canada and East of Maine: the latter being is in the US.
Nova Scotia, on Atlantic Standard Time, is one hour ahead of Maine which is on Eastern Standard Time.
Nothing changes during daylight savings time regarding the difference in time between the two places as each local observes these changes on 3/12 2:00 AM local time, and ends them on 11/5 at 1:00 AM local time. On March 12 the 2AM hour repeats, on 11/5 the 1AM hour fails to exist.
You also asked if the server records two hours ahead of you. Best that I can see it does not. Rather it records 4 hours ahead of you, which I presume is (right now in the calendar year for you, also Greenwich Mean Time,) and seems to obey (GST) Gulf Standard Time--as in Dubai, or the United Arab Emirates time.
I presume there might come in the year where, despite (or perhaps I should say because of) your proximity to Greenwich (and how short winter days are in the UK given its distance from the equator,) that you don't observe GMT (Greenwich Mean Time), as GMT is not subject to change with the seasons, and you are rather one hour ahead, where you will then be (get this) only 3 hours difference from GST, which like GMT does not change seasonally.
If all this isn't enough to digest then know that GMT does change seasonally because it is a world standard that cannot deviate from the various rules for time change, if any, that countries abide by, including how much and when that time changes, while GFT time is likely to not change, for the same reason that Hawaii in the States doesn't observe daylight savings time, but different from why GMT remains static: the countries that abide by it (GST) are close enough to the equator, and don't enjoy much change in the length of their day seasonally, that they doesn't need to adjust their clocks with the seasons to maximize human productivity with the sun. Airline flights don't take longer or short on 3/12 or 11/5 and need to be internationally standardized: hence GMT.
Interesting things happen when clocks change. On March 12 I'm to understand that some trains pause for about an hour. (I don't know what they do on 11/5.)
Still more, people like emergency service workers, who fill out legal documents during the 3/12 early morning change have to make a note of, for example, 2:37 AM DST and 2:37 ST, (given repetition of the 2AM hour) which returns us full circle to why so many automated systems simply record in GMT, as it is not subject to change by anything other than the passage of time and not the passage of the seasons (if that makes any sense.)
So, how's that new Brad Behn adjustable barrel?
Post Edited (2023-11-18 00:56)
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Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2023-11-18 15:35
SecondTry:
Excellent explanation. Where I worked until I retired, the Water & Sewage Operators who worked 3rd shift would be paid 8 hours for 7 hours work during the Spring time change, and would be paid 8 hours for 9 hours work during the Autumn time change. It was usually the same people for both time changes, and was not an issue.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-18 16:56
Hi Secondtry,
Thanks for explaining all that. I didn't know any of that before, and some of it I still don't, because my head is not wide enough to contain the information.
It's good to realise that the system is even more complicated than I thought though.
Jennifer
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2023-11-19 06:29
OK, so is there a setting on here where we can tell it our time zone so the date/time won't be wrong?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-19 12:23
While the forum server will record the hour correctly for only those who happen to be living in that time zone , it serves to record the period of time between posts. If it recorded the time of posting accurately for individual time zones, then there would be no chronological order and it would offer an entirely chaotic posting timeline .
Bringing the forum's time into line with ones own is easy however, just emigrate to Azerbaijan or Samara Russia.
If the server is indeed in Russia, then it wouldn't surprise me if the entire strategic plan for the Ukraine invasion wasn't encrypted into that last thread on cork grease.....Aaarg!... I knew it !
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-11-19 12:29
So, that was time stamped at 12.27, 19/11/23, but it was written at 21.28 (9.28pm) on 19/11/23
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-11-19 18:51
I think the important issue is that the posts appear in correct sequence, which, as already mentioned, wouldn't be possible using time stamps local to the sender. I don't think it would matter where the server actually lives. The software would probably be designed to display time stamps referenced to an international standard (like GMT) no matter where it operates physically.
Karl
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-19 19:18
..what Karl and Julian said.
Johnny, it's of no consequence for others to know what your local time is when you post. Equally relevant it's of no consequence what time zone the server logs posts at as long as this time zone remains static.
Under this paradigm of constant time zone, posts get filled as they come in, as mentioned, irrespective of where in the world they originate
Doing it any other would advantage/disadvantage posters based on locale. To this point, can you imagine the uproar this might ensue of ticket promoters opened up a Taylor Swift concert for online ticket purchases when the 8PM hour arrives in each time zone rather than at, say, 8PM Eastern Standard Time. No (good) tickets might be left for purchase under the former paradigm for Ms. Swift's otherwise equally loyal California (over New York) residents.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-19 20:33
Posts come in in chronological order. The server appears to be in the GMT+4 time zone. Russia (time zone 3), Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia,Mauritious,Oman,Seychelles,United Arab Emirates.
Anyone posting from those regions should see the recorded time as being the same as their own.....exept when they're on Daylight Saving Time, when the recorded time will become right in the wrong time zone and wrong in the right time zone.
I'm sure that makes perfect sense.
And if not, as Douglas Adams pointed out ." Time is an illusion...and lunchtime doubly so."
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-19 21:04
Of course that the server's on GMT + 4; a.k.a. GST (Gulf Standard Time) need not imply that it's physically located there.
It might be. And it's probably something Mr. Charette knows for sure, and it's probably pretty much of little consequence.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2023-11-20 22:08
I gotta tell you all - this thread is funny. Mostly because it's not really relevant to anything we usually discuss, but anyway:
The server is actually in New Jersey, USA.
The timezone is set via nothing - it's set to whatever junk the compiler threw in back in 2018 when I last compiled the (2008 version) of the language this BBoard is written in. (PHP 4.4.9). We need a timestamp to keep the posts in chronological order so whatever it gave me was good enough.
The version of the language I'm using doesn't have a configurable way to set the timezone.
The version of the language is 15 years old - eons in computer age.
Why don't I upgrade the version of the language? Besides being a huge time suck and testing nightmare (I'd guess at LEAST 500 manhours), the BBoard works well enough. It's got quite a few glitches, but all in all is robust and stable. All the big errors I worked out over a decade ago. It has not gone down on an internal error for well over a decade.
The database behind the BBoard (and all the other searchable stuff) is MariaDB and THAT is kept up-to-date.
The search engine is incredible fast but hasn't been supported in well over a decade. It's a search engine that trades space for speed (in other words, the search files are huge but the speed is mighty impressive - swish-e for those that care)
It's an old man but it isn't limping.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-20 23:56
This is thread is a great tool for home schooling both computer science and geography, which is what I'm doing right now. Thank you very much for the great illustration of both.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-21 10:22
And we also now know the secret of how to make a server REALLY fast .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-21 10:55
One additional point of possible academic interest regarding our chronological division of time, is why clocks are divided into twelve hours rather that ten. Apparently the Egyptians stared measuring the passing of time using the sun dial, but rather than counting on their fingers as we do, they counted on the segments of their fingers using the tip of the thumb. Thus one hand sums up to twelve, plus the other hand... twenty- four.( I know that a lot of what I write is in jest.....but this is true according to ancient historians).
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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