 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JoeRomano
Date: 2023-11-08 08:54
I'm having a problem that I cannot diagnose, especially because it happens about once a week, then mysteriously resolves. Sometimes when going from 4th line D to a half-tone lower C#, suddenly there is no sound at all. Weird, right? It lasts for about a minute or so, and then everything is ok. So it can't be a pad leak. Anyway, I'm mystified and frustrated because I'm lacking confidence in using the instrument in a performance. Any thoughts or insight would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-11-08 11:47
I recently had a clarinet with a very similar (but not identical) problem. It took quite a bit of investigating to find the cause, mainly because the player was a little confused, described it wrong, didn't notice exactly when it was happening and when it wasn't, etc. Once he was sure about those details it was easier to find.
So a few questions...
Have you been playing the same clarinet for a while and it suddenly started happening? Or was it always that way on this clarinet?
Does it definitely only happen when moving from D to C#?
What about coming from other upper notes to C# e.g. E to C#?
What about coming from lower notes to C# e.g. B to C# or C to C#?
Does it ever happen in the lower register i.e. G to F#? Or any of the other equivalent fingerings where it might happen in the upper register?
Does it ever happen when moving to other notes/fingerings or only when moving to the C# (and possibly F#) note/fingering?
Does it happen when using either right pinkie or left pinkie C# or just one of them?
Do all notes other than C# (or also F#) play fine? In particular lower notes like C and B.
Not knowing any of these details yet... some possibilities.
- Pressing the F#/C# key or lever causes you to open a tone hole. If it's the right hand key, most likely the middle finger ring key tone hole. If it's the left pinkie lever, most likely the middle finger open tone hole.
- Accidentally opening one of the banana trill keys i.e. Eb/Bb on the upper section or B/F# on the lower section.
- Water in the F#/C# tone hole. It "plugs" the tone hole when you open the key to play it, but in a way that makes it seem like it's closed.
- The F#/C# key not closing the F/C key. This is less not very since the F#/C# key is only stopped by the F/C key. In this case it will cause this problem if F/C remains opens just the "correct" amount.
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Author: mozartklar
Date: 2023-11-08 17:07
Take the instrument to a good tech and have it looked at. It could be a myriad of things. If you believe it is an issue with you and not the instrument, get in front of a mirror and look at what your fingers/hands are doing.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-11-08 21:16
Clarnibass wrote:
"...Pressing the F#/C# key or lever causes you to open a tone hole. If it's the right hand key, most likely the middle finger ring key tone hole. If it's the left pinkie lever, most likely the middle finger open tone hole..."
It happens to me occasionally, esp. when when switching form one instrument (back-up) to another, or from the Bb to the A clarinet.
I'd recommend to make sure it is not player error before taking the instrument to a tech, even though going to a tech may not be a bad idea (if the clarinet was not looked over recently).
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-08 21:24
One way I find useful to determine to what extent, if any, the instrument itself might be the culprit is to examine the upper and lower joints in isolation, holding my left palm over the bottom of the lower joint and covering all its holes with my right hand and vice versa for the upper joint, and blowing/sucking air with my mouth via the opening at the top of each joint(separately) to note how well it holds the keys down when I suck in, or resists the flow of air when i blow out.
Even if this test is passed with flying colors, it is still possible that an air leak manifests itself when the clarinet is assembled, and the bridge key between the two joints causes the two pads (one in each joint) connected to the bridge keys, to not seat properly.
Sometimes such leaks are from more than one location and small ones that only tend to manifest themselves when a player approaches the instrument in less than ideal conditions, where embouchure, finger placement and pressure on keys, or reed contribute to it manifesting. So yes, it could be a pad leak.
A decent tech can subject the instrument to a leak light or air pressure based leak tester.
Was there a point in the past, under the same setup (except for reed) where this problem did not manifest itself on this instrument? Sometimes biting can cause the full fingered notes of the lower clarion ![[B4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/b4.gif) , ![[C5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c5.gif) , ![[C#5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/db5.gif) to not express themselves. An embouchure that applies pressure on all sides, and that takes in as much mouthpiece as possible may also help here.
Post Edited (2023-11-08 21:43)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2023-11-09 00:12
That key opens the 2nd-lowest pad on the clarinet. If the glue holding that pad has degraded, then maybe on dry days or something it actually lets go of the pad, and the pad falls part-way out and rests loosely atop hole. But the glue is tacky enough for the key to grab the pad back later.
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Author: JoeRomano
Date: 2023-11-11 20:08
Thanks all for your responses. I've been playing on and off for over 50 years, so
I was surprised with the problem. But I figured it out, and it is not a leak.
The problem is that it is indeed a new clarinet with slightly different keyword.
I have thick fingers, which is mostly a good thing playing clarinet. However, it can lead to some sloppiness since one doesn't have to be as precise in covering holes, but I digress.
The issue was my left hand fourth finger (the one next to pinky), which when covering the hole, fits fairly precisely between the forked key and the c#/g# key.
Well, the combination of playing left hand c (3rd space) to eb to c# sometimes made my fourth finger mover ever so slightly and touch against the c#/g# key, causing the pad (which opens when trying to press the c#/g# key) to open a slight amount.
This has never happened to me before on any other clarinet, so I might have to get that key slightly modified. For now, I'm trying to make my fingers work more precisely.
But again, thanks all for your input.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-11-11 21:00
You can bend the C#/G# key down/away from the open tone hole, just enough to give you better clearance, making sure it does not come in contact to the Left F/C key.
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