 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-03 23:09
I have a Buffet Prestige bass with a long lower joint, no bell key, no vent hole, and no low D thumb key. It's stamped with 'R13 Prestige.'
What on earth do I have? I thought that the Prestige was RC bore? I thought that even the older 1193 had the vent hole and thumb key. I am confuzzled!
Reese Oller
Clarinet student (performance major at Millikin University)
I can play bass clarinet, Eb clarinet, BBb contra, alto saxophone, bassoon at a decent level, and flute in a pinch.
Post Edited (2023-11-03 23:10)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-03 23:39
That's the pre 1999 model Prestige bass clarinet and the mechanism on it is far more complex compared to the post 1999 model.
Not the most suitable bass clarinet for the vertically challenged or for venues with low chairs.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-11-03 23:51
I just had one of these in my shop. As far as I can tell, the R13 Prestige is exactly the same as the RC Prestige that was also sold in the late 80s/early 90s except it seems to be tuned slightly lower as it was primarily sold it the US. The bore of these 80s and 90s Buffets all seem to be 23.3mm (same as the current Tosca). The later "Prestige" from the mid 90s was the first to add the thumb D key and it wouldn't be until 1999 that Buffet changed to the completely redesigned 1193-2 which had the vent hole in addition to a larger bore.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-04 00:14
ebonite wrote:
> Is it the model with the water key on the crook?
Yeah - shame they didn't carry that across to the current model.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-05 20:34
I haven't got a water key on mine's crook. Maybe it's a different model neck than the rest of the instrument.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-06 10:39
The water key on the crook wasn't on all of them as some didn't have it, so maybe Buffet only offered it to some regions. The photos of Prestige basses from the '90s often show them with it, but most of the ones I've seen in the UK don't have it either.
It's the old "we have the right to change the specifications when we like" disclaimer.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-06 21:56
Well that's irritating. I have also noticed this bass's really complex mechanisms-- they're causing me quite the issue. It's definitely a big project for me (I mostly fix my own small issues on clarinet). It seems like every time I adjust one thing, another goes out of adjustment, like with F/Bb or F#/B. I need to send it somewhere, I think. It'll be a while before I can, though.
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Author: mozartklar
Date: 2023-11-06 22:15
Hey jdbassplayer...what is the diameter of the post 1999 Prestige basses?
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-11-07 02:15
~23.5mm for the body, though some Greenlines I’ve measured as large as 23.57mm.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-07 05:40
At the time they went through a re-design, from what I have read/seen it was a complex mechanism, as noted and costly. As you say they are a complex beast to work on. From my experience the process was very circular, as you are describing. One of ongoing refinement until....
The lower keys pose some of the greater challenges. As you refine the seating it increases the surface area of the pad contacting the tone hole. This results in the other pads showing increasing minor faults. then off you go again...
The keywork started to "roughly" follow the trend set by Leblanc in the early 70s with the six keys on the right side.
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Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-11-07 06:02
Could you post images of the low note mechanisms and the water key? I'm interested in seeing what this looks like.
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-07 06:36
If I had this fixed, would it be a good bass to use for my career or would I eventually have to replace it? Also, I'm having trouble finding a good case that can fit it. Is a modern Prestige worth it? I have a little bit of time left where I can return the R13 and get a modern one if needed.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-07 19:31
As this was Buffet's Prestige bass, then it will be a viable instrument to use provided you have a repairer who understands the instrument and can deal with any problems and improve others.
The pre '99 Prestige basses I've worked on do have solid and reliable keywork, even though it's far more complex with multiple pieces of mechanism doing the work for just one or two as you'd have with the post '99 redesign which has since been copied by Uebel, Royal Global and Backun, due to it being far more rationalised and well balanced.
Selmer low C basses from the '80s onwards also have the lower joint mechanism made far more complex than it needs to be and that hasn't been completely resolved or redesigned on their current Privilege basses.
With more linkages comes more friction and also weight. Compare the low D key on a current (post '99) Buffet Prestige bass with any Selmer low C bass after the Series 9 low C bass and you'll see the convoluted manner in which Selmer do things.
As for cases that will fit the previous Prestige bass with the extra long lower joint, your choices there are very limited to either an original Jakob Winter case or an expensive Wiseman case or a soft and therefore far from ideal gig bag-style case which offers no protection.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-11-07 19:37
The Bam Trekking is actually designed for the pre-1999 Buffet basses with the extra long joint. That's what I used with mine:
https://www.bamcases.com/products/trekking-bass-clarinet-to-c-case-black
-JDbassplayer
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-08 04:14
IMO the current model is a better horn. Whether its the best horn on the market.... Whether you have a horn that is good... better than the small number you are likely able to try...
At one point I was working as a repairer in a large shop that sold a lot of horns. At one time they had 12 prestige basses in stock. I tried 6 out of the 12.
The one I bought was the only one of would have bought as I did not like the tuning on the rest. One was bought by a local professional that I had rejected, she later sold it because she felt it was out of tune...
From my experience they vary enormously and require considerable setting up to get them to play to their peak and the tuning can vary considerably....
Likely the set-up will not come together in one go. Mine had great tuning and awful keywork that was everywhere. The D key that operates the second register key was totally wrong and took far more effort than you would think to fix due to the linkages and other keys etc. The lower pads were a nightmare of circular repetition to get functioning properly for the low C.
Key work is rock solid, which made sorting out the key work harder, but good results in the long run.
Getting any bass well set up IMO is really important... and does not necessarily occur as frequently as you would think...
As we all know the mouthpiece is the major price point to get improvement...
Currently use one of the copper necks and it has a great feel.
I have one of older Buffet cases, about an inch longer than the current model if that works for you.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-08 09:16
Happy to give it to you, for the price of the freight, which could bite.
I can send you some pictures. It functions properly and the interior is sound the outside is knocked around and is definitely not pretty. But solid. Clarinets direct is also selling cases at a fair price.
Let me know your thoughts and we can take it off-line?
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-08 09:49
Yeah, that sounds pretty doable to me. You can email me at the address listed on my account page and we can work it out!
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2023-11-08 17:52
Are the Low C mechanisms (Eb, D, Db, C) on the more recent model of the Buffet bass you're discussing, the same as on the latest version of Buffet's Basset Horn?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-08 20:26
The Prestige basset horn has the same lower joint keywork configuration as the current and the previous (pre '99) Prestige bass (the one with the front low D touch), except the basset horn only has the low Db/C# and low C touches for the right thumb whereas the Prestige bass has a third low D touch for the right thumb (which is the extra low Eb touch on the Tosca bass) making three RH thumb keys in total.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-08 21:52
I'm thinking about trying to add a low D or Eb thumb key to mine (or likely having someone else do it), is that possible?
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-11-08 22:07
It's very easy to add a thumb low D key, you would just need to have a repair tech solder a touch piece to the rod that connects to the left hand low D lever. A thumb low Eb key would be much more complicated and would likely require additional posts and another pivot key.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-08 22:29
Oh, that's cool. I think next time I disassemble mine, I'll go ahead and add it. I'm a bassoonist, I can deal with extra thumb keys
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-09 04:34
Here ya go (of track) Stephen Fox Basset clarinet. The low D is of to the left:) Sorry it wont let me attach the photo
Post Edited (2023-11-09 04:35)
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