 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wookie001
Date: 2023-10-28 01:01
Is it a problem to leave the clarinet assembled when you're practicing at home?
I mean like 7 days or something. Or does this cause too much pressure on the wood which is maybe not good for the instrument?
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2023-10-28 02:02
It's totally fine. I set up my clarinets in the morning and leave them out all day as I practice in stints. Just make sure they are away from vents blowing air and put them away at night. You should be good.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-10-28 02:18
I find it compresses the corks and you may have the bell and bottom joint drop to the floor upon picking it up. At very least you will have wobbly parts.
I wouldn’t do it.
…………Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-10-28 02:26
It's NOT totally fine to do that and you ought to know better if you're an orchestral player.
Leaving them assembled will cause the tenon corks to become compressed and perish as well as the sockets remaining wet from condensation collecting in them. At worst you'll end up with joints that bind up and you may not be able to get them apart, or tenon corks that have compressed and perished so the joints are loose.
Make the general maintenance routine part of your practice - mop the bore out with the pullthrough after playing, disassemble the instrument, dry the sockets with a paper towel and wipe the keywork and wood down with a soft cloth or an old T-shirt to remove perspiration and dirt from them, brush any dust off and from around the mechanism with a small paintbrush, clean the tonehole chimneys with cotton buds/Q-tips to remove any grease, dead skin and dirt from them, blot any wet pads to remove moisture and prevent them from sticking, then return the clarinet to its case where it can't come to any harm. Also regularly apply a small but even coating of cork grease to the tenon corks to keep them supple and make assembly/disassembly easier. Your repairer will only thank you for looking after your clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-10-28 03:37
Stop saying it's fine when it's evidently not.
I know for a fact based on several decades of experience of seeing mistreated instruments that it's not fine to leave them assembled for lengthy periods when they're not being played.
There's no excuse in making excuses for not doing any basic maintenance - too many people seem to think they 'don't have the time' to do this, that or the other when it's all part of owning and playing a musical instrument. Make cleaning it out, taking it apart and putting it back in its case part of the whole experience as that is what it is. If you can't do that then give it up and go and do something else or nothing instead. You've committed to buying and playing clarinet so you should commit to every other aspect that comes and is intrinsically linked with it.
Skipping those simple yet important steps is not fine and anyone who says it's fine should be ashamed of themselves regardless of who you state you are as a player in your signature.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2023-10-28 04:34)
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Author: Selmer Buff
Date: 2023-10-28 04:45
I wish it would compress my corks, but in two years, it has not. I do pull the barrel and mouthpiece as a unit so I can dry with a swab. Then I run the swab down the upper joint. I leave the clarinet open on a stand that allows room air to ventilate the inside.
The Selmer Privilege II comes in a case with the bell attached. Certainly the least important joint, but still.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-10-28 05:02
I'm not offering opinion except to say that if Chris says that it's problematic to keep the instrument assembled for durations then it must be.
What I do want to note, as somewhat of a tangent, is how some of Buffet's clarinet cases necessitated the bell and lower joint remain together in the case.
Not a fan....
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-10-28 05:28
Attachment: r4430.jpg (330k)
Similarly with my 1958 Centered Tone case where the barrel has to remain on the upper tenon of the top joint while it's in there, but I do remove it after playing to dry the socket and tenon cork, then grease the tenon cork when refitting the barrel. The tenon cork has become compressed because of this and I can't say I'm happy about it, but there aren't many hard cases that will fit a full Boehm, even though it's still not a perfect fit in there.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-10-28 14:44
The bell remaining together in the case is annoying. Of course when you put the instrument down, you separate and wipe the condensation from the bell socket (there WILL be condensation in there!). Then there should be enough room to leave the bell and lower joint slightly "undone." Same problem in German cases.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-10-28 16:58
There’s a difference between seven days and a day of, say, 12 hours. If it’s to be played for six hours over 10 - 12 elapsed hours, I can see that repeated assembly and disassembly is both time consuming and pointless. But just leaving a clarinet assembled over night, or certainly for several days risks everything Chris says. And if the parts fuse, then how are you going to put it in a case anyway?
Most of us will need to put it away to take to rehearsals or gigs, so it becomes a bit academic.
graham
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-28 18:43
Chris - if someone did keep their instrument in this way, how much more frequently would they need to buy a new one?
I know people who are very fierce with their computer keyboards, and they just price in the fact that they will need a new one every couple of months.
Maybe some people are like that with clarinets too?
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Author: Wookie001
Date: 2023-10-28 19:08
OK good to know. I've had my clarinet assembled for seven days but now I've put the parts back in the case. But the grenadilla wood probably won't be affected by that?
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2023-10-28 19:29
Playing in community groups and as an adult member of a college band, I've noticed a trend. At the end of playing, younger musicians tend to put their clarinets away fast, sometimes not even swabbing or taking the reed off the mouthpiece. On the other hand, older players tend to linger a minute or two after playing, drying their instruments and carefully putting things away. It's a small sampling, but if one replaces "younger" with "hasn't spent much money on clarinets yet" and replaces "older" with "had to pay to fix or replace clarinets in the past", then it seems understandable.
Chris's points make clear sense. Pressure over time alters materials. Long and repeated exposures to water, ditto. You see that not only with clarinets, but with pretty much anything. Infrequent short-term, fine. Habitual or long-term, then changes will appear.
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Author: hans
Date: 2023-10-28 22:06
I agree with Chris P. His comments should be part of the "operating manual".
The only joint problem I have ever had with the Selmer Recital I bought new in 1988 was caused by my failure to disassemble it after playing. The barrel froze onto the upper joint and it had to be removed by a repair tech.
Leaving the clarinet assembled is not worth the risk.
Hans
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2023-10-28 23:44
I just double checked with a few techs who work with professionals in regards to my comments.
Leaving the horn out 7 days straight can be fine once in a while. If it's all the time, you'll wear the life down of the tenon corks. Those are easy to replace. Wiseman Quad cases keep the clarinets mostly assembled and I know great players who leave all their horns in that case 24/7. I still put my Bb/A in a protec double and my Eb in its own case for the corks decompression.
Putting my horns together in the morning and putting away at night has been confirmed as totally fine. It was also remarked that the condition my horn are in when they go in for repair is always excellent. Also, I swab my clarinets every time when I'm finished using them. Especially the bass clarinet neck can get quite gross if you don't.
I don't take the condition of my clarinets lightly. The two techs I trust most are two and nine hours away from where I live. I think my bass clarinet in particular has stayed consistently in adjustment due to less assembly/disassembly and greasing the joints nearly every time.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2023-10-29 10:32
Like many of you, I repair clarinets for my local high school music program. I'd say that perhaps 50% of the problems that I fix are mechanical issues due to the assembly/disassembly process and 25% due to loose/tight/perished tenon corks. I guess there are always 2 sides to any discussion. Personally I'm with Chris P.
Tony F.
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2023-10-29 14:43
When I was having lessons with John McCaw, then principal clarinet of the Philharmonia orchestra in London, I noticed he left a fully assembled clarinet by his fireplace. He'd use it to demonstrate and for practice. However, this wasn't one of his main instruments.
His approach might offer a half-way solution for those who like to practice frequently during the day. If you can find a cheap instrument that is close enough match to your main one that it allows you to develop your playing then you could try that approach. Even better, I suppose, if the 'spare' instrument isn't wood, as that only leaves the tenon corks to worry about. I'd still pull it through though, after every practice session.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-10-29 19:53
Chris P wrote:
> Similarly with my 1958 Centered Tone case where the barrel has
> to remain on the upper tenon of the top joint while it's in
> there, but I do remove it after playing to dry the socket and
> tenon cork, then grease the tenon cork when refitting the
> barrel. The tenon cork has become compressed because of this
> and I can't say I'm happy about it, but there aren't many hard
> cases that will fit a full Boehm, even though it's still not a
> perfect fit in there.
>
..what an unnecessary clarinet case design. How hard would it have been to design a slot to hold the barrel vertically and apart from the upper joint...?
..doing so probably would have increased open real estate in the clarinet case in addition to not compromising the upper section's cork....
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-29 23:47
If somebody keeps their clarinet assembled a lot as James Garcia describes, does it end up being a bit of a biohazard when it goes for its regular overhaul with the tech?
I can imagine that a clarinet is kept wet for long periods could be a breeding ground for bacteria and fungi, and maybe the repairers wouldn't be super happy about that.
Possibly they should charge more for that kind of service?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-30 18:44
As I understand it, when you leave the instrument assembled you will tend to be trapping moisture in the tenon joints, which is likely detrimental to both wood and cork. How detrimental? ...Well both wood a cork are natural materials and will therefore tend to vary in their response to these adverse conditions. They DO remain adverse conditions however, and if the tenon cork is under compression for extended periods, it's bound to accelerate compression set. Again...how much no doubt depends on the cork.
So the outcome of leaving the instrument assembled is a crapshoot which may weigh out in favor of enjoying that convenience ...or maybe not.
It's a free world!
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-10-30 19:32
It may indeed be a free world, but you don't have to set a bad example like you're doing.
I'm sure you've heard the saying "prevention is better than cure"? If not, then digest it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-30 21:51
Hi Chris,
I was not advocating leaving an intrument assembled, so much as trying to offer some considerations and perspective on the risks of doing so.
There are bound to be those who feel it's ok to leave assembled....and those who don't . I was just trying to be objective about the question( which I don't see as setting a bad example) and rather leaning towards the leaving of an instrument assembled as being a bad idea, but pointing out that how much of a bad idea it is, will likely depend on the individual instrument.
The matter being thus unclear, I agree with you Chris, "Prevention is better than cure".
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-10-30 22:51
I can't for the life of me fathom why so many a question on this board devolves into some kind of battle. Some of us try to keep it civil, and others definitely do not. Are we not all clarinetists trying to come together to form a community? Can we not tone it down a bit? I'm not saying it's this thread in particular, but I think we all can understand where I'm coming from? I come here for info and community, not reading internet drama!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-31 00:11
If we were teenagers, people would be telling us we have too much screen time, and we should go out and do some sports. They may be right.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-31 02:19
I personally leave my clarinet assembled for 1 week at a time. I've done this for a few years with no issues. Yes, the corks become a bit compressed. But they all still fit tightly. Any trapped moisture is no problem on my plastic clarinet. If I had a wood clarinet, I'd probably disassemble every time.
I also leave my 6 saxophones assembled all the time, unless they leave the house. Corks on those are also fine. Compressed, but still work perfectly. When I can pick up an instrument anytime I feel like it, I'm much more likely to play it.
The alternative is I put it in the case every time and lose my motivation to practice. So I'll sacrifice a premature re-cork that I can easily do (and have done) myself for the sake of being a better musician over all.
Post Edited (2023-10-31 03:12)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-10-31 12:32
Isn't the saxophone already fully assembled out of the box?
And when did the saxophone reach the status of "a musical instrument?"
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-31 16:35
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Isn't the saxophone already fully assembled out of the box?
>
> And when did the saxophone reach the status of "a musical
> instrument?"
> ..................Paul Aviles
>
Ha ha. So true. Love this!
But the sax forum consensus is just as adamantly against leaving assembled. The fear is it will get dusty, knocked over and a compressed cork. Oh the horror.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-31 20:40
Don't worry Reese........the dust never settles in this forum!...Ha-ha !
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-01 02:36
The horror indeed. You may like to shrug your own ineptitude, neglect and unawareness off if you want, but you're not the ones wo have to deal with neglect.
While saxes are for most part are in a singular piece with a removable crook, leaving the mouthpiece on the crook cork and leaving the crook fitted with the sax left out on a stand because you think that'll motivate you to do more practice or whatever other lamearse excuse you can muster up is also doing more harm than good.
For starters, leaving the mouthpiece on the crook cork will compress and perish the crook cork, leaving the crook fitted will cause corrosion in the socket and leaving it on the stand will indeed collect dust. Dust will stick to the mechanism and ends up becoming caked to the instrument.
And yes, I'm armed with answers to all your petty jibes through experience of having to deal with all the problems caused through neglect, so bring it on and I'll tear you a new one.
It's a sorry state of affairs to see the level of bad information on here from people who should know better, but clearly they know absolutely bugger all. You know who you are. I know who you are. You know I know who you are.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-11-01 04:07
Wow! Touched a nerve I see. Since I've been doing the assembled thing for nearly 50 years with no ill effects, I'm not about to stop myself or discourage others because some stranger on the internet disagrees, or wants to tear me a new one. Whatever nightmare instruments you've encountered were the result of far more neglect than simply leaving out on a stand.
I'll give you the compression, but the rest is hogwash. My tenon has not corroded, and dust is very manageable with a monthly wipedown that I'd do regardless of whether the instrument was left out or not. My corks incur far more damage from normal wear and tear. I typically replace all of them myself about every 10-15 years. Pretty easy job.
If you really want to refute some serious disinformation, check out the recent thread about fully immersing a fully assembled wood clarinet in water simply because you don't know how to find leaks. Talk about corrosion and ruining the mechanism.
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Author: crazyclari
Date: 2023-11-01 06:09
A problem from leaving horns together is the wood swells this can result in;
-the barrell jamming on
-cracks in the neck and or
-cracks in the upper section of the body.
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Author: Connor1700
Date: 2023-11-01 06:43
WHY DOES IT MATTER???
Who cares what someone chooses to do their their own clarinet??? Put it in the case.... leave it assembled.... throw it against the wall.... make an ugly lamp out of it......
Why does anyone care what someone does with their horn?
Has anyone seen in the owner's manual from any new clarinet company suggesting that one should leave the clarinet assembled for a day, week, or month? COMMON SENSE.
If you want to use it as a door stop.... that's your choice.
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-01 07:05
Disturbing facts, Crazyclari....
That is a wise point, Connor. Free will reigns above all!
Also was that lamp thing some shade thrown at Mike Lowenstern?
(A JOKE)
I personally don't leave any of my clarinets assembled, wood or not. It never struck me as very wise IMO, but I respect others' choices. And I honestly think this thread should probably be closed. We have argued so much about this and gotten nowhere.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-01 12:58
I dislike the assumption that we have a battle over people's minds in a discussion. People offer their differing views from which others can draw their own conclusions as the masters of their own free thought and on the strength of persuasive argument.
Respecting others in this way would avoid the majority of conflicts on this forum
and be less patronizing.
In the words of Voltaire " What you write discusts me...but I would fight to the dear for your right to continue writing it."
If you don't like what someone has posted, you can counter it with your own arguments without being abusive. The objective approach tends to be the more persuasive for any readers trying to make a balanced judgment in a discussion.
Hi Chis,
You are highly respected and appreciated on this forum( certainly by me)as a representative of proper practices when it comes to intrument care and much,much more, but not everybody is going to be so meticulous due to their nature, or maybe daily life circumstances and that is just a fact that exists forming part of the reality behind these sorts of discussions. Life is largly a juggling act.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-01 19:37
While there are some repairers who are driven by money and reap the benefits of replacing tenon corks or sax crook corks as they've become compressed, I am one of those repairers who would much rather not have to constantly replace tenon corks or sax crook corks if the owners took the liberty to maintain them.
That's why I constantly drive the message of maintaining both sockets and tenons hard as well as instruct players of all ages and abilities how to hold their instruments during assembly/disassembly in order not to bend or damage the keywork.
There are many teachers and players with decades of experience who don't know how to do that as they've never had any real instruction of that aspect, as well as many older players who lick their tenon corks and sax crook corks before assembly which is not only cringeworthy, but enzymes in saliva will break down starch, so that's the reason to use a high quality cork grease and also dry out sockets after playing.
While most of the water collected is condensation, there will still be some saliva in there too and some players are more spitty than others (I've seen saxes with a lacquered finish look like they're frosted as they're completely coated in a layer of dried spit).
I no longer lend out my instruments to anyone unless I know they have a competent level of basic maintenance - if I see their instruments are well maintained, then I have confidence in doing so.
Companies like Yamaha include a maintenance leaflet with their instruments and some go as far as showing how to wash a sax crook which you don't see from others. Any basic maintenance leaflet should include the following steps:
Mop out the bore with the pullthrough/swab after playing
Wipe the keywork and joints down with a soft dry cloth
Take the instrument apart after playing.
Dry the sockets and tenons using a separate piece of paper towel and apply a thin, even layer of cork grease to the tenon corks.
Return the instrument to its case to keep it safe and dont store it in extreme conditions.
Remove any dead skin, grease and dirt from tonehole chimneys and thumb tubes.
Blot any wet pads after playing (using cigarette papers) but don't drag out the blotting paper from under closed pads when doing this as the paper can break off and cause a leak.
Avoid drinking sugary drinks before or during playing.
Use a small paint brush with long bristles to brush any dust from around pillars and under the mechanism.
Anything you can do to reduce premature wear and tear is always a good thing and your repairer will definitely appreciate it. We don't like repeat offenders and especially don't like constantly having to repeat ourselves to them each and evry single time we deal with them when things go wrong and it's usually the same problem with every visit.
There's no such thing as 'I don't have the time to do that' as you always have the time - if not right at the end of the gig when your brass playing colleague is rushing you to get home as they're giving you a lift (they're usually packed up and ready to go as soon as the last note has finished, although at the detriment to their instrument), but when you've got home and have a few moments to do what needs to be doing so your instruments are ready for the following day.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2023-11-01 22:27
All good professional musicians keep their instruments right in tip-top shape, right?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-01 23:33
I think that Chris is stating things as someone serious in his profession, which is something very much to his credit . Any good doctor will state things similarly if you are a smoker or are otherwise threatening you health with poor lifestyle habits. You'll get a similar lecture from a good car mechanic or dentist.
Even if we can't achieve the ideals they endorse , it's good to be offered clearly defined targets and their professional duty to present them.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-11-02 10:29
It's a cost-benefit question and can vary for different people in different situations.
The risk of leaving the clarinet assembled are mostly (1) the tenon corks compressing, becoming wobbly and needing replacement much sooner, (2) the tenon sticking or even becoming stuck, (3) higher chance of cracking.
(3) is a serious consideration if you also don't swab. (2) and to a lesser degree (3) are significant if you don't swab the sockets (even if you swab the bore). (1) is always a risk regardless.
Each issue can happen to various degrees not only by the amount of time you leave the clarinet assembled, but also by weather in your area (or room it is left in), how tight or loose the corks are in the first place, how tolerant the specific piece of wood is to cracking (i.e. it might crack being as careful as you can, it might never crack with abuse). etc.
You can't know in advance how much risk there is.
Then the question is, for example, would you want to play and actually play much more if the clarinet is left assembled, but have to replace tenon corks once every two years instead of ten years. There's the cost question and the ecological question too. It is a guess how much more often someone would have to replace corks but someone might decide it is worth it to them for the convenience and playing much more.
Same for sticking tenons. One clarinet might not have sticking tenons even after a week of leaving the clarinet assembled, while another clarinet might have sticking tenons after two days. Weather is different, the pieces of wood are different, and it's usually possible to fit them in a way where it would fit the specific situation, if it comes to that.
Re cracking, it is also unknown. Leaving the clarinet assembled and wet can increase the chance, but on one clarinet it might be from 1% to 1.1% and on another from 0.2% to 1.4%.
Of course it's always good to recommend everyone swabs and disassembles their instrument after playing, but just understand the cost-benefit and decide if it's worth it. For some people it is.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-02 11:37
I do find this discussion really useful, but I feel as though there should be a better answer that we haven't identified.
I think that for those of us who play in many short bursts at home during the day it would make the world of difference to be able to keep the instrument assembled.
However, for me, with the instruments I have, I don't think it would work.
With my new Yamaha clarinet, even if I just play for ten minutes, I get really a lot of water gathering in the junction between the joints, and I have to work pretty hard to get that puddle dried out when I put the clarinet away. I reckon if I left that as standing water for any length of time, I would quite quickly have bacterial and fungal growth in there.
Conversely, my old vintage clarinet doesn't get water in that gap between the joints, but when I kept it assembled for a week, it did form a hairline crack by the end of the week.
It's really odd, but reading through this thread, I find myself vehemently agreeing with all the posts, even though they disagree with each other.
I do wonder if there is a third option that we haven't thought about, along the lines of Julian's bass clarinet hairdryer.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-11-02 19:04
As someone in the leave it assembled camp, I never advocated not swabbing. When you’re done playing, swab it several times. And as I said before, I would NOT leave a wooden clarinet assembled. That’s definitely asking for trouble, as you’ve already learned first hand.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-02 21:43
........ok........... are you guys ready for this?
Which way do you swab, from top to bottom or bell upwards?
I have been doing top down for a number of years and just switched back. I don't have the condensation trapped in the side key tone holes at all now.............coincidence?
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-02 22:00
Fantastic! I like it.
I put the weight on the swab into the bell and let it fall out though the mp. I use a silk swab because cotton ones were too bulky to go through.
When I pull the swab out through the mp I always feel as though the entire world is watching me and judging, because I know I'm not meant to do that, but the swab fits very easily through the mp, so I keep doing it.
Then I pull the parts apart and dry the sockets, which is the time consuming part. They always have big puddles in them and it takes ages to get them dry.
I have never knowingly dried a tone hole.
Adult learner, Grade 3
Equipment: Yamaha Custom CX Bb, Fobes 10K CF mp,
Legere Bb clarinet European Cut #2.5, Vandoren Optimum German Lig.
Post Edited (2023-11-02 22:01)
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-11-02 22:24
I do both, once or twice each. I am taking no chances with my new clarinet or bass clarinet.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-11-02 23:43
SunnyDaze wrote:
> Fantastic! I like it.
>
> I put the weight on the swab into the bell and let it fall out
> though the mp. I use a silk swab because cotton ones were too
> bulky to go through.
>
The danger in swabbing the mouthpiece is that either the weight of the swab itself could damage the tip rail. My personal witchcraft includes being careful that the weight doesn't pass over or contact the tip - turn the clarinet (or the mouthpiece itself if you swab it separately) so the window faces down and the weight falls out of the window before it reaches the tip.
I've always felt nervous about abrading the tip rail if I pull the cloth (I use microfiber swabs) over it, so letting the weight fall out of the window does the double duty of keeping the swab itself away from the tip.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-03 00:37
I usually drop the pullthrough from the bell to the barrel (with the mouthpiece removed) and pull it through s-l-o-w-l-y to be sure it absorbes condensation on the way up rather than pushing water into toneholes as well as reducing the risk of it getting snagged on the speaker tube. I do that more than once to be sure.
Don't use your pullthrough on the mouthpiece and especially plastic ones as the risk here is the friction caused by the pullthrough or the string/ribbon can raise a burr on the base of the window which will cause the reed to leak and on ebonite mouthpieces it can wear out the rails over time which will also cause a leak between the facing and the reed. I've seen this damage on both plastic and ebonite mouthpieces.
You're best rinsing the mouthpiece under a cold tap and then using paper towel to dry the inside from the tenon end and blot (but not rub) the facing dry.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-03 00:52
Hi,
Thank you for the advice on cleaning the mp. I've been thinking for a while that I really ought to wash it properly, because I'm always super-careful about hygiene everywhere else. I will start washing the mp rather then using the pull-through.
Is there any reason why I shouldn't leave it to drip-dry on a paper towel?
Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-03 01:02
You can end up with water marks on it if you don't dry them off which will look unsightly even if it doesn't impact on the playability. Ebonite will discolour easily and taste of sulphur especially if you use water that's too hot for it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-03 01:28
My mp says it's made of rod rubber. I can't think any sensible thoughts at all in the face of such a comical phrase.
Is it okay for rod rubber to drip dry?
Adult learner, Grade 3
Equipment: Yamaha Custom CX Bb, Fobes 10K CF mp,
Legere Bb clarinet European Cut #2.5, Vandoren Optimum German Lig.
Post Edited (2023-11-03 02:11)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-11-03 01:47
Fnarr! Fnarr!
Ebonite doesn't yield any double entendres, even if there are loads more of them to be found in the music world as a whole.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-11-03 11:22
Swabing from the top down has one huge advantage that far outweighs others. If the swab gets stuck, it's almost always possible to pull it back out. If you swab from the other side and it gets stuck it's usually not possible to pull it back. This is supported by statistics, at least 90% of the times people bring me clarinets with stuck swabs to remove it's inserted from the bottom (it gets stuck on the register tube).
There are a few exceptions.
Some swabs are long enough that they would still peek from the bottom of the upper section (most are not).
You can also be extra careful (better to be regardless) and at the slightest hint of getting stuck, or not really stuck, but just more difficult to pull through, remove from the back and try again.
The thing is, some of those that brought me clarinets with stuck swabs were extremely careful...
There are a couple of supposed advantages of swabing from the bottom.
One is that there is more water at the top, so you don't want to bring all that water down through the entire instrument. In reality this is an imaginary advantage and doesn't make any difference.
The other is that it's a bit more comfortable to pull it through from the larger opening and going through the reducing diameter of the bore vs. the other way. This is also a very small advantage. In reality it might save you a couple of seconds.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-03 13:23
I would just like to pose a question regarding the discussions in this thread and others like it, which is why do we have this thing about searching for the most convenient, time saving way of doing everything so much? I say that because I've always found that embracing little rituals in the upkeep of things that I value feels good . It's a moment of expressing ones appreciation for something one appreciates.
The obsession with winning time is particularly notable with those who will overtake dangerously, risking many lives to arrive 10 seconds sooner somewhere.( and quite a lot sooner if that place turns out to be the cemetery).
I used to be an organic market gardener, and since I stopped raising my own meat and growing my own vegetables whith all the careful dedication that that entails, I just don't appreciate food the same way.
And that is why I understand and respect Chris P's almost religious views on intrument care. It's not about what you can or can't get away with. It's about why you would really want to .
Yes Chris!.... I'm a lot like you. Things like a bore drying blower invention are for my wife such as she is, because I understand that in making relationships work out, that killing the other person can be somewhat counterproductive. Ha-ha!
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-03 14:21
I just want to add that I'm not telling anybody what they do or don't have the time for.( not my business). Only that making the time for certain things that seem tedious can be rewarding when embraced in the right way .
That's all .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-11-03 17:34
In response to Clarnibass regarding the swab:
When I began playing many many years ago I was not really attentive to the details of what was going on with "water in the keys." I WAS much more interested in "hitting the target" regarding getting the weight of the swab's cord into the clarinet. From there I spent most of my years just doing what I did before. That is, until a few years ago I took Clarnibass' reasoning to heart and swabbed from the barrel down. Over these last few years I have noticed a tendency to have more condensation gurgles in the lowest sidekey, the C# below it and the RH sliver key below the C# key. I've put up with that for a last few years attributing this to......"that's just what happens now."
A few days ago, just for kicks, I went back to swabbing "bottom up." Oddly the nagging moisture in those likely spots seemed to disappear (or certainly lessen). I feel that perhaps the action of dragging moisture DOWN (Top to Bottom Method) allows moisture to catch and accumulate more at the bottom of those tone holes. There it sits waiting for more condensation to come through as you play more. Whereas, if you swab Bottom-Up, the moisture would "catch" at the top of the tone holes where it may even evaporate before gravity takes over.
So maybe "eliminating moisture before it gets lower in the horn" is a fallacy, but where the access moisture is "pushed" is what is important.
................Paul Aviles (over thinking a simple issue)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2023-11-04 14:11
Thea King told me to pull through top down. She said that was specifically to draw moisture onto the bore of the lower joint, to even out the distribution in the wood. More than once she told me she was breaking in new instruments for a student. It may be her pull through advice was based around a cautious approach to preserve other people's instruments. Personally I pull both ways, but have really consciously considered which end to start with. Either way, I'd have thought there's a danger of drawing liquid into the holes on the upper joint. The slower the pull, the more chance the material has of absorbing the moisture, rather than moving it around, I suppose.
Another well known English player told me to leave the barrel on when pulling through. This was to save wear on the bore at the top of the top joint, as the material of the pull through expanded on exit, or was compressed on entry. He said it was better to replace a barrel than an upper joint. He was a pro, so he was pulling through his instruments far more frequently than most of us. I doubt this is a significant issue for amateurs. Do any repair techs have a view on bore wear caused by pull through?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-04 14:11
My tuppence worth on swabbing, is that a damp swab works much better than a dry one because the moisture can enter the cloth by capillary action without having to first break its own surface tension to do so. If a dry swab is drawn past a tone hole with water in it, it's like a car trying to pull out into heavy traffic without an easy opportunity to enter. Hence drawing the swab through slowly is more effective than drawing it through too quickly many times.
I would say that one pass with a damp swab likely clears more water from the instrument than two or even three passes with a very dry one. By the same token, if you go in through the barrel with a dry swab,then leave it a little to linger in the top joint to give the water in the tone holes time to overcome surface tension and soak into the cloth, and then continue slowly through the lower joint, this absorbed humidity in the swab will now better remove moisture in the lower joint rather than carrying it there.
I would offer that a slightly damp swab is just the thing to have for quick efficient swabbing during live performances etc.
Like so many things, swabbing seems pretty simple, and yet there are laws of physics it's good to keep on ones side.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-04 17:37
Hi Julian,
The silk ones absorb water much more readily than the cotton ones and are much less likely to stick in the bore. I find them much better. It still takes several goes to get the sockets dry though.
I'm still in the "aiming carefully with the weight" team that Paul mentions. The weight in mine frequently sticks to the magnet that holds my finger guard on too, which livens things up.
Jennifer
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-05 11:01
HI Jen,
You might do well to replace the weight it your swab with say...a bit of appropriate width stainless steel bolt with the head cut off, as stainless steel won't be attracted to the magnet .
As for guiding the end of the cord into the bore, personally, I take the cord corner of the swab between three fingers and palm leaving thumb and forefinger free to then grab the cord at about four inches from the end to comfortably guide it in. Once the cord has dropped through I grab it, flip the instrument so the swab is hanging downwards and slowly draw it through .( That seem to work best for me at any rate.)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-11-05 11:54
Hi Julian,
Thanks for that. Sorry to be cheeky, but do you play the clarinet? I thought it was your wife that played.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-11-05 14:32
I swab from the bell end, in the same manner Julian describes and pulling the swab slowly. I will usually swab multiple times during a performance, and if teaching at least once every half hour.
As for leaving instruments set up.... well this is no longer possible living with a 2 year old who seems magnetically attracted to clarinets (her first concert was seeing her mother play the Mozart Quintet on a "period" basset clarinet at the Oregon Bach Festival).
However- my clarinet is routinely left set up for a day of 6 or 7 hours of teaching and this has never hurt it. Prior to the arrival of the Littlest Girl my bass clarinet might have been left set up for a few days here or there...
It's not something I'd make my standard routine, but if it happens now and again the world won't end. More important is regular swabbing.
And yes, at least ONE respected repair/custom shop blames repeated swabbing on "blow out" and changing the bore or wooden clarinets. To this I have always thought, "well, what's the other option, not swabbing?". All a bit impossible to prove etc.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-11-05 15:26
Hi Donald ,
I believe that one can wear down the bore by frequent swabbing, but only
using those cheap swabs that don't even come with a piece of string and have
" 80 GRIT " printed all over the back.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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The Clarinet Pages
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