 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-10-31 06:42
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Variety is the spice of life.
Two seeming contradictions.
I play a Vandoren M15. I like it. I think what people say about it being a pretty reed friendly mouthpiece is true. But every often I like to change things up a bit just to see if there's something out there that's a better fit.
So I purchased a 5RV, the M15's closest relative on the more open tip side of things and didn't like ok. Lesson learned.
Now I'm thinking, just for giggles, of trying an M13 Lyre or even an M13.
What might a user coming from an M15 expect?
.
Thanks.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-10-31 07:21
I played both. Of course I am prejudiced toward the M13 (not the Lyre version). It should be a more open feel that allows freedom to put more air into it than the M15.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-10-31 13:07
Sure tip openings are important, but the shape of the curve is very crucial to the "feel" and resistance profile. The M15 (which is one of my preferred Vandoren facings) is similar to the M30D (despite it being considerably more open at the tip), M30 and CL4/CL5 despite these all having different tip openings.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-10-31 18:09
SecondTry wrote:
> Now I'm thinking, just for giggles, of trying an M13 Lyre or
> even an M13.
>
> What might a user coming from an M15 expect?
That it will feel different from the M15 you're used to, especially if you do the testing with your old M15-friendly reeds.
Karl
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2023-10-31 19:04
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Here is an article from Vandoren Magazine where Donald Montanaro who helped develop the 13 series was interviewed about the m13, m13 lyre and at the time, the new m15.
"Between the M13, M13 Lyre, M14 and M15, there are not enormous differences. I switched progressively in the same series, to give sensitive players various options. Now, with the new M15, we have added a facing with enough opening for many players who heretofore found the M facings too close."
I just selected a new M13 Lyre. Despite consistent modern production methods there is still a significant variation in the mouthpieces across the same model. I had three M13 Lyres to try. One was great, one was OK, and one was not good. I used a combination of recently broken in reeds and fresh reeds to pick out a mouthpiece. Reeds really adapt to the mouthpiece they are broken in on so it's important to have fresh reeds.
I'm coming from a BD5 13 series with 3.5 v12s to the M13 Lyre with 3.5+ V12s. While the sound isn't very different. There is a little more resistance in the new set up however the legato between registers and response in articulation is so much better. The opening articulated notes of Mozart come out the way I want more often, its easier to diminuendo at the of the Beethoven 6 excerpt while maintaining the same quality of articulation. Shostakovich 9 3rd movement is less slippery, if that makes sense.
I play on Yamaha CSVRs that are still pretty new. They have a bit more hold in the sound than an R13. I imagine that if I was playing a five year old R13 and using the m13 set up, the sound would probably be a bit too thin for me and I'd definitely opt for the BD5 again.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-10-31 21:25
As i read Donald and Karl's responses I begin to wonder if I didn't word my question well.
Let me say that I'm fully away of the things that can make a mouthpiece differ from not only another maker, but between maker's models, or even production differences on the same model. From tip openings, to baffles, to construction material, to curvature, to rail width, to me: I get that.
What I was looking for is a description of how players who've played both might describe the differences/experience. For example, someone wrote here that the sound on a Vandoren 5RV might be brighter than that of an M15. I shared that experience, but even if I hadn't, it was still a descriptive response.
Thank you Paul.
Karl: "it will feel different from the M15 you're used to...?"
Really...?
...From a moderator no less?
Next time warn me to "strap in" before sharing such elaborate degrees of high specificity as it regards these highly refined nuanced differences.
Not your best or nicest post.
Post Edited (2023-10-31 21:49)
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Author: MarkS
Date: 2023-10-31 23:17
The OP began by saying that variety is the spice of life. It makes me wonder why the search is being limited to the one brand Vandoren. I played on a Vandoren mouthpiece for an extended period several years back--in fact the M15--and liked it. However, I have also tried other lines of mouthpieces, which has led me to switch several times.
One of the attractive features of Vandoren is that the mouthpieces are good, and the price is quite reasonable. However, there are other mouthpieces that might be worth trying that are not overly pricey. While I have not played on Backun Vocalise, that is one that other players I know have seemed to like. It is only slightly more expensive than Vandoren.
Recently, I was inspired by Eric Black's video to try a Gleichweit mouthpiece (B7-1). I had never tried a mouthpiece with such a long facing or that was made from acrylic, rather than hard rubber. It was slightly under $200, yet played better than mouthpieces that were significantly more expensive. While fairly open (1.15), it is not overly resistant. For more details, I would refer to Eric's video, since my experience was similar. Gleichweit has many choices for the facing, and I am aware that these are available for trial either from the maker in Vienna, or from Innoledy in New York.
Mark
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-10-31 23:27
MarkS wrote:
> The OP began by saying that variety is the spice of life. It
> makes me wonder why the search is being limited to the one
> brand Vandoren.
Very fair question. I thought it best to try subtle changes, all while not breaking the bank. I like the M15 so I sought mouthpieces similar to it. 
Still more I like the Jon Manasse adage "mouthpeace of mind" and its double endre on peace and piece. As the largest maker of gear from "the barrel up," your bound to find a decent mouthpiece that fits your taste from the company's wide variety, and be reasonably (in both fit and cost))able to replace that mouthpiece need be.
Post Edited (2023-11-01 00:03)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-11-01 01:01
SecondTry wrote:
> Karl: "it will feel different from the M15 you're used to...?"
>
> Really...?
>
> ...From a moderator no less?
>
> Next time warn me to "strap in" before sharing such elaborate
> degrees of high specificity as it regards these highly refined
> nuanced differences.
>
> Not your best or nicest post.
Nor is this your nicest response.
You wrote in your first post "So I purchased a 5RV, the M15's closest relative on the more open tip side of things and didn't like ok. Lesson learned.
So, what was it you didn't like? What was the lesson? You must have expected a difference or you wouldn't have tried the 5RV.
I'm not sure what your crack about "'[strapping] in' before sharing such elaborate degrees of high specificity as it regards these highly refined nuanced differences" actually means. I get the sarcasm. I just don't get the meaning.
You can't make a flat statement about differences between mouthpieces without taking reeds into consideration. Any more than you can make a meaningful, flat statement about the differences among VD Traditionals, V.12s, V21s and 55 Rue le pic without specifying the mouthpiece you're using them with.
How would you describe the differences between your M15 and the 5RV you tried? Perhaps doing that would suggest how you want answers to your initial question phrased.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2023-11-01 02:53
Of those mouthpieces, I generally prefer the M13 lyre. It always seemed that I could get a little more varied tone color and perhaps it was a little more free feeling to me than the M15
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-11-01 03:37
“Strap in” Karl was sarcasm suggesting the opposite of a thorough discourse on your part, not that I was expecting a dissertation, and instead you’re stating of the obvious terseness that was essentially “different model mouthpiece different experience.”
I guess we’ll just agree to disagree on both the cordiality and usefulness of such 411. I thought it out of character for your usual IMHO better response. Maybe it’s me.
The last word’s yours if you want to take it.
Funny, most others knew what to say here. And still more why is my experience with the 5RV that you seek relevant to the opinions I solicited of others on the M13?
Post Edited (2023-11-01 03:39)
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