 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-08 11:54
This is a question on behalf of my wife who's English is a bit pidgin.
She was just told by her teacher that she blows out her cheeks too much while playing bass. From what I can see her embouchure remains stable however....it's kind of a brass players cheeks and neck thing.
She switched from Bb to bass around two years ago under his tuition and has been playing that way for quite some time, so she's feeling a bit put-out now, seeing as he didn't mention it sooner, rather than letting it become the bad habit he's now saying that it is.
Her teacher does not really play the bass, so there has ever been an element of " The blind leading the blind" in their relationship.
Is her teacher right about this and if so,why is it a technique shortcoming?
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-10-08 15:19
Hi Julian,
I really like this video for getting close-ups of bass clarinet technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjEu6Dd1Q9k
Jennifer
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-10-08 15:19
It's no different for any wind instrument. You can make the argument that you lose the immediacy of a sudden, musical attack. Of course if you have become used to the anticipation then you are already compensating for it.
But there is definitely no benefit.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-08 15:59
Ask Dizzy Gillespie. Yes, it’s a bad habit and not ideal. But it’s not the end of the world either. Any teacher worth his/her salt should at least try to break students of such a habit. And every student should make the effort to break it.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-08 19:21
Thank you all for your replies.
I just asked her why she thinks she blows out her cheeks and she said it was to create moments of higher pressure, so I guess she's probably using her cheeks where she should be using her abdominal muscles.
If any of you can offer any tips to help her conceptualize the correction of this bad habit, then that would be great . Her teacher should be doing this, but if he was then she wouldn't now have a bad habit ...<.Sigh!>
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-08 20:17
For my students, I have them puff their cheeks (no instrument), and without blowing (as you would in circular breathing), empty their mouth of air. Whatever your cheeks feel like the moment you reach that empty state is the normal state while playing the instrument.
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Author: moma4faith
Date: 2023-10-08 20:51
One thing you could ask her is how much "resistance" she feels when playing. I've noticed that students who puff their cheeks may have a better tone if they adjust their reed placement to lessen that feeling of resistance. I have them lower their reed just a smidge, and I also have them lower their ligature just a smidge. From there, we experiment to see where the best reed/ligature placement is to get a good tone without puffing.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-08 22:09
Thank you both,
Those are both good tips to start working with. She's not as yet had a chance to really find her right setup I fear, as to do this she really needs to fly with her bass to Barcelona, Madrid or London to try MPs. She probably should be playing with a bit less resistance. I'll suggest she experiment with that angle.
She's rather on her own trying to master the distinctions of this instrument here on the island.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-10-08 22:14
You counter "loose cheeks" using your buccinator muscles (the ones you use when trying to get a thick milkshake through a straw). But I still think it is only an aesthetic issue IF there is no problem generating an attack exactly where you want it.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-09 10:07
Thank you Paul,
Can I translate milkshake into smoothie?.....otherwise the blowing out thing may well shift downwards as a result of her remedial practice.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Auke
Date: 2023-10-09 13:22
A top bass clarinet player with a beautiful sound explains why it is necessary for him to play with his cheeks blowing out in this video at 10:40
https://youtu.be/21bcWIWJvFM?si=rt8_f8khVxoABMDy
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-10-09 13:51
Yes, as Auke points out there are a number of fine players who puff out their cheeks and justify this unashamedly. AND get good results.
I am not among them, for what it's worth, and have always wondered if it is REALLY necessary to be honest.
Like 95% of bass clarinet players, I don't puff my cheeks and have not the slightest temptation to do so. I have a colleague who DOES and was taught this by a top European player (not Harry Sparnay). Go figure.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-10-09 16:32
There are a few things to say about the bass player with the Philharmonia. Firstly he does consciously use a different embouchure from his Bb playing. He describes taking in all the available mouthpiece as opposed to playing close to the tip. There are many Bb players that do the same for more resonance and sheer volume. Then there is the puffy cheeks thing. The way I see it is that he is using less pressure with his lips, allowing them to be thicker and more supple. Tony Pay said the lower lip should not just be a dead piece of meat. To the extent that puffing out his cheeks aids him toward these ends, that’s fine.
………Paul Aviles
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-09 18:12
My wife does not play with her cheeks constantly puffed out . Her cheeks appear to fill in preparation for playing a low note and then compress as she plays it combined with a slight taking of more mouthpiece with the lower lip. She seems to have developed this intuitively and it looks very fluid to me.
Unless this habit has shortcomings I don't see why she should worry about it.
Given the lack of real tutors for playing bass here on the island, she's bound to end up with a few autodidactic tendencies which hopefully won't represent significant handicaps.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-10-09 19:54
That’s not a great technique for playing low notes. The abs are far stronger than cheek muscles. If she’s actually using the cheeks to push the air, it would be best to break that habit (except in the case of circular breathing).
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-10-09 21:42
Hi Lydian,
Yes! ....That rather echoes my suspicions about it.
Working from the abdominals and keeping her cheeks set should both improve her air support and stabilize her embouchure...or so I would imagine.
Sounds like a win-win thing.
I'm going to suggest that to her.
Thank you!
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Reese Oller
Date: 2023-10-10 21:47
I play bass with a whole lot more mouthpiece than Bb, and I used to puff out my cheeks a little bit. As I got used to the freer-blowing nature of the low clarinets that problem went away-- replaced with another one. Now that I'm used to the bigger mouthpieces, switching between contra, bass, Bb, and maybe even Eb (and yes, at some points I've had to do so) is easier. But now on the small ones my embouchure is I guess not strong enough, as air escapes out of the corners of my mouth occasionally.
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