 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2023-09-11 20:24
Looking for ideas or suggestions here. For some years now I've been playing on a Clarke Fobes Sanfransisco CF+ and found that for me it was a perfect fit. I'm an amateur player, playing with 2 concert bands and a jazz ensemble. I'm a fit 84.
Early this year I had hand surgery, which prevented me from playing for several months. When I resumed my embouchure was flabby at first so I dropped my reeds from 3 to a 2.5. I had no real problems playing at home but when I recommenced playing with a concert band I found that after perhaps 20 minutes of fairly intensive playing my mouthpiece was choking, the reed completely blocking off the chamber such that no sound is produced.
I've experimented with harder and softer reeds and with several other mouthpieces, but the problem persists. I think it's caused by biting, but I've tried consciously relaxing my jaw with no real improvement. I find that changing to a dry reed helps, but only for a short time. Could this be a mouthpiece issue? If so, can anybody suggest a direction?
Currently I'm using Fobes SF CF+ with VD 56 Rue Lepic 2.5 and 3.
Any suggestions are welcome, this is extremely frustrating.
Thanks.
Tony F.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-09-11 21:50
I've had a few medical issues lately to include a broken wrist (now just over a year ago) and find that small changes in how you place your hands, hold your fingers, form your embouchure can have some pretty big consequences. One thing that is happening to me is that I can occasionally bump (nudge?) a key open slightly with a carelessly placed finger (sometimes the lowest side key, sometimes one of the sliver keys) which causes a "shut down" much like you describe.
Also embouchure changes (biting; not using enough support; taking in more mouthpiece than you used to; taking in less mouthpiece than you used to) can effect how the reed will respond in critical dynamic changes or delicate articulation moments. For this I find (believe it or not) that adjusting the ligature tightness can make a big difference. For example if you really lock the ligature down, try just a little less so or even loosen the screw so that it barely grabs and see what responses you get.
Just some things that have happened to me of late.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-09-11 23:57
>I've experimented with harder and softer reeds and with several other mouthpieces, but the problem persists.
>I find that changing to a dry reed helps...
IMO, a fresh reed is going to be a little bit stiffer than one that has been played on for a while.
>but only for a short time.
This tell me that the reed is getting too soft as you continue playing.
The only possible solution that I can come up with is: Would converting over to a Legere European reed take care of the problem?
Just a thought...
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-09-12 00:05
Tony F wrote:
> Looking for ideas or suggestions here. For some years now I've
> been playing on a Clarke Fobes Sanfransisco CF+ and found that
> for me it was a perfect fit. I'm an amateur player, playing
> with 2 concert bands and a jazz ensemble. I'm a fit 84.
>
> Early this year I had hand surgery, which prevented me from
> playing for several months. When I resumed my embouchure was
> flabby at first so I dropped my reeds from 3 to a 2.5.
>
I think the simplest answer is that you should try to get back to what was working before. It sounds like the reeds you're using are too soft and that, as they get wetter, they close too easily. There's a limit to how much you can back your bottom teeth away from the reed to prevent biting before you lose control and produce a spread sound that responds unreliably. And if you play with a comfortable embouchure, the reed closes. Try going through a box of whatever type of #3 reed you were playing and finding the easiest ones to play. Try all 10(?) reeds in one sitting for a few minutes each. Some reeds in a box will be too unbalanced ever to play without adjustment (and maybe not then). You may find that some are too soft. But you'll probably find at least a few Goldilocks (just right) reeds you can use to build strength.
I realize that everyone is different, but I don't think I could play on a 2.5 Vandoren (Trad., 56 Rue, V.12 or V21) on a CF+.
Karl
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-09-12 00:53
Tony F,
Another thought came to my mind...
You wrote:
>Early this year I had hand surgery, which prevented me from playing for several months.
Several months, to me, usually means 3 months. A couple of months, again to me, usually means 2 months.
After this time period, you stated that your embouchure became "flabby".
I believe that the fingers on the hand you had surgery could also have become a bit "flabby". If you're not pressing as strong now as you did before the surgery, a small amount of leakage may be taking place without you knowing about it. IMO, even the smallest amount of leakage will introduce "resistance" at the mouthpiece which may have caused you to lower your reed strength from 3 to 2.5.
I've had CTS and part of the recovery was to do hand and finger strengthening exercises.
Did you go through hand and finger strengthening exercises after your surgery?
Do you feel confident that your finger pressure is as strong now as it was before the surgery?
Again, just a thought...
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2023-09-12 18:53
Thanks to you all for your comments and suggestions, they were all very welcome. I've arranged to have a session with the director of one of the concert bands in which I play. She is herself a professional clarinettist and musical educator and it will be interesting to get her opinion.
Having now replaced at various times the reed, the mouthpiece and the actual clarinet I'm left with the inescapable conclusion that the source of the problem is me. Following some hand surgery (tenosynovitis) my hands have, as far as I can tell, regained their former strength but after surgery and a 5 month layoff they are not the same as the hands I started out with.
My flabby embouchure has improved, although not yet to its former state. I'm working on building to harder reeds. The idea of Legere reeds was suggested. I have a selection of these of various persuasions, and while they help a bit they do not entirely remove the problem. To help eliminate the possibility of nudging a fork or sliver key I've reshaped these to give a bit more room for my rather spatulate fingers. The process proceeds, I'll keep you posted. Again, thank you for your thoughts.
Tony F.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-09-12 19:22
Let's assume, perhaps incorrectly (or not) that biting IS the most proximate cause of your issues.
This suggests that one stop biting, but falls short of methods to best address that.
In my opinion, too many players equate the process of eliminating biting by simply relieving jaw pressure when in fact another means may prove better.
Conceptualize Tony, if you will, your mouth opening being more like a rubber band than a vice grip. Accordingly, as a rubber band, pressure is applied to that it grips from all sides, not just from top and bottom as in the vice grip.
To point, those muscles on either side of your mouth play a crucial roll in good embouchure formation as well. Concentrate on applying more pressure from the sides. This will naturally release vice grip like top and bottom pressure while creating an even better seal on your mouthpiece and reed.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-09-12 19:38
Air pressure alone will cause a soft reed to close up regardless of bite pressure.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2023-09-14 16:11
I suspect that soft reeds may be contributing to the issue. If you suspect that you may be biting and closing the reed, try practicing some using double lip. That can sometimes help prevent biting and cause you to become more conscious on using lip support.
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Author: Ken Lagace
Date: 2023-09-14 18:32
A quick way to ensure you are not biting, and the side muscles are doing their job, is to lift the upper teeth slightly off the mouthpiece.
Post Edited (2023-09-15 01:40)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2023-09-14 19:37
Thanks to you all for your suggestions.
I tried switching to a plateau clarinet to see if the problem is related to improper tone hole covering, but the problem was still with me. I'm sure by now that it comes down to weak embouchure, which is causing me to bite to compensate. Andrew, I've taken your comments to heart, I'm sure that the solution lies in that direction. I'll just be conscientious about embouchure and working on building it up again. Thank you all for your help, so freely given. Much appreciated.
Tony F.
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