 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Shaun
Date: 2023-08-30 01:06
Hello everyone, posted this on reddit earlier, got some response, but not a lot.
I'm the dedicated e-flat player in communityband for over a year now. Having played clarinet for 25 years this was a really cool adventure and I'm absolutely loving the instrument. However...
I'm playing a noblet artiste from the seventees that has a very nice sound but it brings some challenges: for example throattones and altissimo are VERY flat and the efforts I have to take to circumvent this are quite rigorous. Also the ergonomics arent that great and the instrument itself suffered quite some wear through the years
That's why I decided to start looking for a new top of the line eefer: selmer muse/recital, tosca or yamaha 881. Secondhand is barely available and what's available is on the same lvl as my current instrument. Also I want to try a couple of instruments, since it's quite an investment.
I was wondering if there are some players here that play one of those instruments and why you chose the instrument. Are there some black horses I'm missing and are these instruments as good as advertised?
Hope anyone can help
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-08-30 03:44
i find it eaiser to lip down sharpness than bite to bring up a flat pitch. i use a shorter barrel on my bundy and with practice i can play it 100% in tune. i understand what you are going tru with your noblet and you are unlikely to find a better horn with out going top tier. yamaha or buffet or selmer. even finding eb barrels isnt easy but i would look for a shorter one. it will solve the flat throat tones for sure. i have a very nice french andre robert but can hardly play it due to ergonomics. believe it or not the bundy does a pretty good job all around
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2023-08-30 03:49
I have a Yamaha 881 and played it for a few years in the Nashville Symphony. I really like the horn and have no complaints. Prior to playing the Yamaha, I played a Buffet Prestige RC and a Patricola as well as an R13 from time to time.
I loved each of these instruments, but they all have pluses and minuses. This is simply the case with Eb clarinets. The Patricola had a beautiful sound and very good intonation. My issue with it was that I couldn't push it enough in the loudest sections of Mahler or Strauss; it just would get lost in the texture. The Buffet Prestige was the solution to this, and it worked beautifully. It had a few quirks in intonation that bugged me like an impossibly out of tune high D (too flat w/o the Eb key and too sharp with it).
I tried the Yamaha 881 on a whim one day and bought it on the spot. It had the best of both the Patricola and the Buffet. It fits my hands and plays well enough in tune.
I'd recommend for you to look for any of the well known pro instruments, the ones I listed and any of the many others. Even some of the Leblanc models would likely be an improvement over the Noblet that you have.
Yamaha makes or made a model below the 881 that plays pretty well; it's worth a look.
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-08-30 04:38
I could have written your exact post a few months ago. I ended up with a Yamaha 881 and I love it! I had a Noblet before as well and couldn't find any used professional ones I was willing to take a risk on (no returns, couldn't try first, etc.)
I decided on Yamaha because of their consistency. Buffets are great but you often have to try several, and in Eb world that is difficult outside of a few very specific locations.
My advice would be to start trolling the European sites like Howarth, Dawkes, Matthew's, etc. (Assuming you are in the US).They are quite a bit cheaper and no VAT tax, just customs, which is nominal. I saved about $1500. BUT at the time I bought in May there was a big shortage on Yamahas. They were really hard to find anywhere. I joke that I got the last 881 in Europe. Probably not, but of the main sites I checked, I got the last one. I was told 4-6 months on the 681 I first tried to buy. That could be soon, though, now. They had one 881 left and I grabbed it.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2023-08-30 18:04
I started with a Noblet many years ago and as many have mentioned, a shorter barrel solved many of the problems of intonation.
I've gone through R13, Prestige and now Tosca Buffets. The Tosca is a wonderful horn but of course also the priciest. It is also the best in tune with itself. I performed the Eb concerto Scent on it and people were impressed with both the sound and intonation.
I find the Clark Fobes Eb extension really critical in getting the best intonation and it has worked on all my Buffets. It evens out the 12ths and seems to make the overall intonation better.
There is often an R13 Buffet for sale on eBay and coupled with a Fobes or Grabner mouthpiece and the Fobes extension will make you a very happy camper.
Eefer guy
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2023-08-31 07:01
I hope you will keep us informed of your search, and conclusions. Good luck on the hunt - and enjoy the hunt!
My Eb hunt started long ago, with an opportunity to substitute on an orchestra gig, leading to a full time assignment in an area professional Wind Ensemble, and now having assigned seats as Eb/Bass seats in 2 other orchestras.
I needed an Eb in a hurry at the start, so a Buffet E11 filled the bill. Made in Germany by W. Schreiber, it is a consistent, quality pro level clarinet. However, as things progressed, I felt I topped out what the E11 could do. I tested a batch of Buffet Eb R13s, and found my choice. I didn’t feel the need for Prestige, Tosca, or other huge dollar choices, and the R13 was high priced enough! I found a friendly and superior playing partner. I’ve run the gamut on mouthpieces, reeds, accessories. On a normal gig, I use the R13 with (Buffet branded) Chadash barrel, Clark W Fobes 10K (blue) mouthpiece (Fobes 10K black always loaded as a spare) Rovner Dark ligature, and Legere Eurocut 3.25 reeds. When traveling alone (no doubles), my Eb enjoys a single Lomax HumidiPro Eb case. When doubled with Bb, they travel well in a Marcus Bona double Bb/Eb case. When all the hardware is needed, I use a Marcus Bona triple A/Bb/Eb case.
Sometimes I experiment, I have Bradford Behn’s barrel, extension and bell. I really want to say they make a marvelous difference. One thing for certain, they make the horn longer!
That’s MY Eb life in a nutshell. As I asked - keep us posted in your Eb evolution.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Shaun
Date: 2023-08-31 14:33
Hello everyone, unfortunately couldn't respond earlier, but thanks for sharing all the advice, tips and experiences!
I'll try to tackle as much topics as I can.
A lot of you talk about a shorter barrell and I share the same experience a shorter barrell helped a lot. I play a cocobolo backun barrell with the BD5 vandoren mouthpiece. Reeds I use vary between the rp56 3,5 and v21 3,5 for bb clarinet. I think I know my instrument very well and can play it in tune decently. But between lipping up and lipping down especially in more technical passages I've become a real "Mouth Gymnast".
I just want to make my life a bit easier and expect it will also help me play a bit more musically. All this even without considering the not so amazing ergonomics of the noblet.
Someone assumed I was in the united states, I'll absolutely take that as a compliment since English is not my first language. I'm in the Netherlands living very close to a large musicstore, somewhat comparable to dawkes or thomann. I have to inform if they can make some of the upper models available. I guess they have to order them from the manufacturers in Paris(except for the yamaha) since they don't have them in stock right now. They are an official dealer of these brands, so I guess it won't be a problem. Worst case scenario I have a romantic trip to Paris with my wife :-P
summarizing, I probably just have to try a bunch and decide what i do and don't like. The resaearch and sharing of the proces is part of the fun, so I'll definitely keep you all posted!
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2023-08-31 16:29
You might also experiment with the Fobes extensions- they can help with the tuning and also the overall "feel" of the instrument. There's a selmer version and a buffet- you'll just have to try both to see what's best for the noblet. Worth considering dropping $200 on an accessory before $3000 on a new horn imho.
I play an Amati eefer with all the problems you mention, so I feel your pain! I mostly use a selmer c85-120 mp with cutoff rico #2 Bb reeds, which lets me lip the tuning wherever it needs to go.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-08-31 17:40
Changing the barrel to one with a taper will help a lot with the flat throat tones. The stock noblet barrel is cylindrical and, in my opinion not a good match when paired with most mouthpieces. I believe it is the same effect that causes people to use moenig barrels on BB and A instruments.
I had trouble finding a barrel for my noblet so I made my own, but others on this forum have reported that some of the aftermarket options can fit with slight modification to the tenon corks.It may be worth exploring for your situation. In my experience the barrel won't sharpen the altissimo that much, that seems to be more a function of the instrument design. Some slight variation to fingering helps a lot on my noblet. I can share my fingering suggestions if you tell us what the problem notes are.
Also if you have never cleaned your toneholes, it may be good to check that. That will flatten a lot of the throat notes and maybe effect the altissimo.
Post Edited (2023-08-31 17:42)
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Author: 2cekce ★2017
Date: 2023-09-01 03:25
I played on an Amati Pro model eefer with the extra Eb key which came in handy for me.
It came with two barrels of different lengths of course and I paired it with a Clark Forbes which helped with playing ease. The buffet I played before that was a bit stuffy with some resistance. Both played and sounded well as to be expected for the beast that it is. Also alternate fingerings will help. I no longer play with a band to use my Amati so it's on consignment at the moment.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-09-01 04:22
my shorter deg eb barrel made it so i have to now lip down the throat tones. its prefferbly to trying to lip up. i fit my bundy with no mods but wont fit my conn or A robert paris . i found a killer bay eb mpc so my set up is complete. also agree slightly softer reeds make pitch changes a lot eaiser. iget called out by the director for being too loud but not for being out or tune.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-09-01 05:04
Shaun wrote:
"...Someone assumed I was in the united states, I'll absolutely take that as a compliment since English is not my first language. I'm in the Netherlands..."
Would it make sense to go to Paris and try a few instruments there?
You could contact the stores directly before the trip and see if they can offer you a few clarinets to try.
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Author: Shaun
Date: 2023-09-01 11:37
Yeah definitely! First I'll ask the musicstore what they can facilitate, but worst case I'll have that romantic weekend in Paris I was hinting to it's only a 5 hour drive. With the musicstore however I'm able to take some instruments home for week, that won't be possible if I go to Paris.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2023-09-01 17:47
Although I've not tried the Yamaha, for my money the natural choice would be a Selmer. I have one of these - 1980s vintage - and am very happy with the sound and intonation. I believe these are the most common choice at the pro level. Eb's tend not to get so much punishment, and the 1980s models can be as good as new (but much better value). reedandsqueakcases.com is currently selling one. They are also selling a B+H Imperial, which has been another common pro choice in the UK. I'd be seriously tempted by that if I didn't already have the Selmer. The older Selmer model was replaced by the Recital Eb, and clarinetsdirect has one of those. Both these dealers are very good at sending instruments for trial and taking them back if they don't suit.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-09-01 20:42
Shaun wrote:
"... First I'll ask the musicstore what they can facilitate, but worst case I'll have that romantic weekend in Paris I was hinting to it's only a 5 hour drive. With the musicstore however I'm able to take some instruments home for week, that won't be possible if I go to Paris."
If you do find an instrument you like (which is very likely given that you can try both Selmer and Buffet, in addition to Yamaha), you may be able to get a short trial period. In the worst case, you'd have to drive 5hrs again 
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-09-02 15:58
B&H Eflats may require a mouthpiece with a different bore to a French design.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2023-09-05 08:04
I'll add to the Yamaha love. I have a 881 and recently sold the 681 I had to a student. The student really likes the 681, and said it's a great horn (better than the R13s the conservatory owns).
I was mesmerized by the 881, after being taken away by the 681 when I bought it. Both are great horns, and especially if you can get them on a deal!
Good luck!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: Shaun
Date: 2023-09-05 19:42
Little update:
Today I contacted the musicstore to ask them how their stock was looking. At the moment they have one RC prestige and a RZ in stock. They have a couple of buffets and one muse on order for the dutch military band.
Apparently it's very hard to get e-flat clarinets at the moment and even the big brands don't have them in storage (selmer and buffet) because of a shortage of staff. Earliest delivery will be in march, but I have to buy the instrument and won't be able to playtest it first. For me that's quite a risk especially since I want to try different makes and models.
The last yamaha e-flat they sold was in 2010 so same goes there, they can order one, but it's only one because they cannot take the risk cause nobody will buy it here.
28th oktober there will be a selmer demo day and they will inform me if they bring a recital or muse e-flat clarinet.
All in all I find it a weird situation, it has never been this hard to spend a couple of thousand euros.
Post Edited (2023-09-05 19:44)
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-09-06 18:03
This time of year, all the school bands (and new students) are gearing up for the new term, so they probably bought up most of the available inventory. You may have to settle with what your store has in stock unless you want to wait 6 months. You could probably buy online too, but you would not likely be able to play test it either.
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Author: Fishamble
Date: 2023-09-15 18:47
If you’re open to second hand, have a look here: https://www.clarinetsdirect.net/store/c7/clarinets-in-e-flat#/
Based in England, I think. I got my wonderful 1980s Selmer Eb here. Their overhaul work on it was quality. And I had the option to trial & return it - there’s a policy somewhere on the site.
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