 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-12 22:16
I am thinking about buying a Conn bass clarinet which is on Craigslist. I think the serial number is L19322 (or LL9322, it is hard to tell from the photo). I have been doing some research on this forum and other places on the web and am getting incredibly confused about whether Conn bass clarinets of this era (whatever era it is) are of decent quality.
I have not seen the instrument yet. It is located an hour away, so I'm doing my research first to avoid wasting a trip if this instrument Conn bass clarinets are a bad investment. The seller is asking $575. He says it needs new pads. He seems to indicate that it is unplayable in its current condition, so I will not be able to discern anything about its sound until I have already purchased it and had it serviced. The seller also says it is a "professional" bass clarinet. Did Conn make professional level bass clarinets?
Thank you so much for any info you can give me.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-08-13 00:34
Keep in mind "needing new pads" often means spending well over a thousand dollars these days if you want quality work, and with bass clarinets you NEED quality work. Before making that kind of commitment you need to know more about the instrument. In my opinion, the only Conns worth considering are the older professional models which this seems to be given the L in the serial number (stands for low pitch) so that's a good start. But some of these older models only go to low E. If this instrument only goes to low E then it is simply not usable in most modern settings, there's just too much literature that uses the low Eb. If it does go to low Eb or D then it may be worth considering. There's also a lot more that needs to be considered such as any past repairs and the condition of the wood. Pictures would definitely help.
The older Conn bass clarinets I've played have been pretty decent.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-08-13 01:17
There are two types of Conn bass clarinet - those made by Conn and those made by Malerne.
The Conn ones are easily identifiable by the grub screws in the pillar heads, just as you'd see on Conn saxes which lock the point or pivot screws in place (the point screw threads having a smooth section in the middle of the thread for the grub screws to lock onto). They may also have two simple action speaker keys rather than a single speaker key touch and the lower joint socket screw has metal straps on it (like oboes/cors and full Boehm Buffets) to prevent it from turning as it has two (or possibly three) pillars soldered to it.
The Malerne stencil Conn basses in both wood and ebonite are easy to identify as the keywork and features are the same as other Robert Malerne and Malerne stencil basses - the speaker mechanism, B-C#/F#-G# linkage across the joints and LH Ab/Eb key are easily identifiable features on Malerne basses, although they may not always be present. The fingerplates and Buffet-style RH pinky keys are also a dead giveaway, plus they won't state if they're LP or HP as Conn basses do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-13 01:30
Thank you for your help, bassplayer. It is very helpful to get confirmation that this instrument might actually be a professional version. This one does go to Eb.
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-13 01:41
Thanks for the helpful details, Chris. The problem is I don't know most of the terms you mention (grub screws, speaker keys, etc.). My problem, not yours. I will do an internet search, but since I just have pictures at this point, I still may not know if it is an actual Conn or a Malerne.
But if I DO figure it out, which is preferable, Conn or Malerne? Is it a bad thing is it is a Malerne (or a Conn)?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-08-13 02:08
That's a much later/more recent Conn bass than the ones I was thinking of and I haven't seen one that recent before - their soprano clarinets of that era also having very similar shaped and inline top joint side/trill keys as seen on Leblanc/Noblet/Normandy/Vito instruments.
The good thing with this one is with it being built to low Eb, all the keywork is on the body joints rather than having a bell key, so that's not something else to get damaged as bell keys often do.
Looks like it's built like a tank.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-08-13 02:11
This bass clarinet actually has a range to low D!
But unfortunately it is one of the later Malerne made instruments which only has a singe register vent. The extended range is noteworthy, but the ones I've had in the past were fairly stuffy and had a poor upper register. I would definitely not consider it a professional instrument.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-13 04:13
Oh, rats! I was hoping I had found a diamond in the rough, or at least a cubic zirconia in the rough. I don't really NEED a professional instrument, but the potential stuffiness isn't something I want. I guess the search continues.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-08-13 04:34
i have a malerne alto and its a dog. despite having left hand eb/ab key -i would not buy this brand again. you would be better off with a vito or bundy than one of these.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-08-13 08:04
>> This bass clarinet actually has a range to low D! <<
Since it's not visible in the photos, where is it (both key and lever/touchpiece)?
Considering where the low Eb key is, I guess it has to be on the bell, with the lever either for the thumb, or somehow a left pinky hidden in the photo?
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-08-13 19:23
There is a key for the thumb running down the back of the instrument. You can just barely see the key arm in the first photo. This arm connects to a fairly standard bell key. To play a low D you finger a low Eb and add the thumb key. It's a very simple and practical mechanism, it's a shame the rest of the instrument is not great.
I made this video of one a long time ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qolkOgB5Tvk
-JDbassplayer
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-13 22:30
I can confirm that this instrument does have a tone hole on the bell.
Given that this model of Conn bass clarinet isn't getting glowing reviews from people in the know, can you recommend a couple other used bass clarinet models that I should keep my eye out for? While I don't need a professional-level bass clarinet, I would like a model that I don't have to fight with to get relatively good results. I'm looking to spend $500-$800. I know, I know. That isn't a lot for a bass clarinet, but my budget for non-essentials is what it is. And I also recognize that repairs and/or adjustments are usually needed. I'm hoping to pay for those services incrementally as my budget allows.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-08-13 22:56
In that price range a Bundy is your best bet. I would avoid Vito bass clarinets as they have a tendency to crack at the middle socket.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-13 23:18
Thanks for the recommendation, JD. So the Bundy is better than this Conn?
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-08-14 05:41
yes-and i agree that vitos have a tendency to break in half where the joints connect. i have a bundy and its extremly sturdy. if in regulation these play ok. on the malerene -the keywork is flimsey at best. very poorly made. the bundy keywork is extremly robust as it was intended for school use. for a little more $ i would consider a wood leblanc . easy to find usually and is a low end pro insturment . i also have 1 and these play very well for a single register horn. expect to pay 800-1200 for one on ebay usually.
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-14 19:50
Very helpful, everyone. Thanks! It seems like in my price range I should be looking for a wooden LeBlanc or a Selmer Bundy. It is so helpful to have this narrowed down.
Am I correct in assuming that a LeBlanc may have superior sound to a Bundy?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-08-14 20:35
A wooden Leblanc bass that carries the Leblanc lyre/kithara logo on both joints and has a large metal socket covering the top end (secured with three wood screws) will be a pro level bass and definitely head and shoulders over a plastic Bundy bass.
If you do find a used Leblanc bass, expect to have it fully overhauled even if the seller claims it was 'recently serviced' or 'recently overhauled' as that means diddly-squat. I recently bought a used Buffet S1 soprano sax and the seller said it had just come back from his repairer having had a full service, which I had my suspicions about. When it arrived, my suspicions were valid as it still had all the original key corks and felts from the day it left the factory back in 1984 and they should've all been replaced if it was serviced (well, I'd have replaced them all if I'd done the service). The 'repairer' may have indeed looked at it - maybe when they were asked to look at it, they indeed took the 'look with your eyes, not your hands' thing too literally/figuratively (delete as applicable).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-14 22:42
Attachment: LeBlanc Logo.jpg (131k)
Thanks, Chris. I have attached a photo. Is that the logo and socket you are referring to for the pro level bass clarinet?
Also, would you say that even LeBlancs that are not pro level would be superior to a Bundy?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-08-15 00:26
Hidden under that dreadful lyrebox is indeed the Leblanc logo which means this is a pro level bass. That can be removed and the holes filled in to hide them, then the logo can be cleaned up and reguilded fairly easily on older Leblancs as they're engraved nice and deep into the wood.
The intermediate model bass made by Leblanc was the wooden Noblet bass which sits between the entry level plastic Bundy and the pro level French basses made by Leblanc, Buffet and Selmer.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-15 02:47
You had said that professional instruments also have a large "socket". Can you send me a picture of such a socket? I was thinking that thing you call a lyrebox was a socket.
Sorry for so many questions.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-08-15 03:25
The crook socket at the top end of Leblanc basses is a fairly large affair which is essentially two different size sockets joined together - the narrower diameter socket is for the crook (with a sax-style locking screw) and the larger diameter one slips over the tenon on the top end of the top joint. You'll see it on these photos of a Leblanc bass:
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_606562
A Noblet bass, like most bass clarinets, has a regular socket in the top joint (reinforced with a metal socket ring) where the corked crook tenon fits into it:
https://www.clarinetsdirect.net/store/p425/Noblet-Bass-Clarinet.html#/
The lyrebox, lyre holder, lyre fitting isn't the socket - sockets are typically the deep countersinks in the ends of joints or a metal tube set into the end of a joint where the tenons fit into them to join two joints together.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2023-08-15 03:26)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2023-08-15 05:10
Aside from the aforementioned tendency to break the center tenon, I've found that Vito bass clarinets play and sound better than Bundys. Also, most Leblanc instruments from the bottom-line plastic Vitos through the "mid-pro" Leblanc wood Model 400 (with Normandy and Noblet in between) are acoustically and mechanically identical. That's right, a wood Leblanc will play no better than a plastic Vito in excellent condition.
Fact is, Leblanc never really made a "pro-level" instrument. Almost, but not quite.
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Author: OmoCrater
Date: 2023-08-15 06:19
That is amazing....and, at the same time, quite aggravating that a company would allow customers to spend more money for a product that really isn't any better?
So for Leblancs at least, there is really no reason to spend more for the "mid-pro" version?
I think it was a Vito that I played in high school a hundred years ago. I am stunned to think that that instrument was as good as it gets, at least for Leblancs.
This is all quite an education. I am extremely grateful.
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Author: loganreid
Date: 2023-08-15 06:39
Many players like the full, rich tone that Conn bass clarinets produce. The tone is well-focused and projects nicely dino game. The low register is strong and stable.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-08-15 06:50
there is probably a difference between in tone between the real conn and the marlerne made conns. i have a marlene made conn alto-it sounds like a wounded goose
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