 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-07-17 19:55
This is something I would like to know more about.
It seems to me that changes in venting height have a more radical effect on pitch at the top of the instrument, reducing as one goes down. Is this the case...or am I imagining it ?
I would also like to know what, if any, are the effects of differing venting heights on a bass' double register vents. Can this influence response ?
Thanks. J.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-07-17 20:50
I'm guessing here, but I think the pad height effect being more pronounced near the top of the instrument has to do with how differences in frequency are more perceptible the higher you go (this is why high instruments like E-flat clarinet and piccolo have tuning issues).
For the bass register vent, it has indeed affected response for me. My bass has a double register vent, and I had to make it so the neck vent opens further, in order to get the affected notes to speak properly.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-07-17 21:25
I've found affect on pitch to be small, but affect on stuffiness large. I agree the supposedly larger effect on the high register is mostly perception.
Regarding the register key, it must be just the right height and diameter. Too small, and it won't break the fundamental. Too large, and notes will be airy, resistant and unstable. I had to modify the octave pip on a bass saxophone because the pip diameter was slightly too large. Inserting a thin sleeve fixed it.
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Author: spikey1973
Date: 2023-07-17 21:41
Oke, now I feel really stupid.. and had to remind myself (again) that I am still very much a newby... so following is a very blond question...
What the heck is Venting (height)??
Please be kind with the answers
Greats Matthieu
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-07-17 22:23
The distance a normally closed pad opens when the key is depressed fully. An open cup is said to be vented. A cup where another cup immediately below it remains closed is said to be under-vented. Not necessarily a bad thing, just a fact. On clarinet, venting height only applies to keys with key cups of course. Much bigger deal on the larger instruments like bass and all saxophones and closed hole flutes.
Luckily the heights set at the factory are usually ok. Players normally leave key height adjustments to their tech. Doing it yourself can do more harm than good if you’re unqualified. If you suspect an issue caused by incorrect heights, tell your tech the symptoms, and trust his/her judgement.
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Author: spikey1973
Date: 2023-07-18 02:03
@ Lydian
Understood! Thanks for the explanation.
Inhind sight obvious ofcourse, but the retroscope is always clear not
Kind greats
Matthieu
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-07-18 02:50
In all cases, more venting is better than not enough venting.
If you like things stuffy in the low register, combine poor venting with reeds that are too hard for you.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-07-18 04:36
I disagree. Too much register key venting can wreck the tone and make it airy and unstable. Too much venting on lower keys can raise the pitch. On sax it can also slow you down when your fingers have to travel farther. If you opened up every keycup a few inches, the pitch would be destroyed and it would basically be unplayable and impossible to regulate. So you can end up with a lamp if you go too far. There's a sweet spot in all cases.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-07-18 09:47
Thank you all for the enlightening comments .
I'm assuming that the little tubes for register key venting were originally"pipes"....but were found to be too long that way, and so were all filed down untill they were just " pips"...Ha-ha!
I didn't know this term....you learn something new every day!
So venting heights here may disputably effect performance ...I'll experiment with that .....I guess the proof is in the pudding .
That pitch variations are more notable in the high notes does make sense.
I had been entertaining the notion that this seeming difference between venting height influence on pitch that I was perceiving, was because air was venting under higher pressure towards the top of the instrument.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-07-18 21:37
Lydian "I disagree. Too much register key venting can wreck the tone and make it airy and unstable. Too much venting on lower keys can raise the pitch. On sax it can also slow you down when your fingers have to travel farther. If you opened up every keycup a few inches, the pitch would be destroyed and it would basically be unplayable and impossible to regulate. So you can end up with a lamp if you go too far. There's a sweet spot in all cases."
A FEW INCHES? How the effing hell can you open up the venting on a sax, let alone any instrument by A FEW INCHES? That's a physical impossibility! I don't know of any sax where any of the keys would even open up by as much as half an inch at the very most, let alone a few inches.
Were talking FRACTIONS OF MILLIMETRES which ventings are typically measured in, not INCHES! As far as too much venting on the large lower joint toneholes on clarinets, there's a maximum venting where the notes will issue without any resistance and anything more than that isn't going to have any effect. And to think the plain LH3 tonehole (the D/A tonehole as D/A issues directly from it) as well as all the other tonehole chimneys aren't affected when the fingers are lifted too far from them. If you have a fully covered hole/plateaux clarinet, then you'll notice when there's not enough venting as things will be stuffy, as opposed by having sufficient or even excessive venting from the fingerplates.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2023-07-18 21:49)
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-07-19 02:09
@Chris P,
Precisely my point. More venting is not always better. There is a limit. A few inches would basically destroy the instrument.
Middle C on my bass sax is the definition of terrible venting. Extremely stuffy. If the key height is raised so it's no longer stuffy, you can't physically reach around and operate the key. In this case, alternate fingerings are the only practical solution.
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