 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2023-07-11 03:10
Those of you who own several Eb clarinet mouthpieces, which ones did you find tuned on the lower side? I own a secondhand R13 Eb clarinet which is quite sharp in the left-hand clarion and altissimo C# and D. Because I don't have the budget to buy a new Eb clarinet (e.g. Buffet Tosca) which may have better intonation, I'm looking for recommendations on mouthpieces that tune well to A=440 on a sharp Eb clarinet.
I found using a custom barrel (Corbin, 43mm) helped with the tuning somewhat, however it is still very challenging for excerpts such as the Rite of Spring Eb clarinet/bass clarinet duet. I purchased a Vandoren BD5 mouthpiece which has lower pitch than the B40 and 5RV I own, however I still have to use fake fingerings for altissimo C, C# and D.
I am curious to see if there are any custom mouthpieces available that tune lower than this. Does anyone have Behn, Fobes, Grabner, Smith or Hawkins mouthpieces they can compare to a standard Vandoren?
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Author: Mark Cookson
Date: 2023-07-11 03:55
As you've found, the BD5 seems to tune lower than the other Vandoren Eb mouthpieces. The old Hite I used to play was on the low side, so it might be worth trialling one of those.
You could also check that the pads affecting those notes aren't opening too high - does wedging a few layers of cigarette paper under the buffer corks bring the pitch down? You can also reduce the size of the tone holes with tape (or Blu Tack) at the top of the tone hole - my R13 has cork inside quite a few of the tone holes to improve the intonation.
Lastly, those notes are very flexible on all E flat clarinets. Make sure you aren't playing with more jaw pressure than needed or using too hard a reed. For high D, I quite often leave off the RH little finger key to keep the pitch down.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-07-11 05:18
i have many eb mpcs and the selmer and vandoren tune flater across the board. i found also the hite to have better overall intonation up high than most but the best i have played for over all preformance is a charles bay. the bay allows me to play the best in tune overall. no easy feat on an eb. the hite is much eaiser to find to buy and almost as good.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-07-11 05:24
Any reason you can’t just get a longer barrel? I need a 44.5mm on my R13 Eb. I just use a Borbeck mouthpiece.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2023-07-11 09:43
Thanks for the replies so far! I have tape in the left hand toneholes to reduce the sharpness. A longer barrel would make the throat notes and thumb F excessively flat. I'm looking for a more subtle adjustment that could be provided by a lower pitched mouthpiece.
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-07-11 21:07
I play on a Smith, and also have a Backun mouthpiece. I tried a BD5 but didn't like it as much. I used to have a similar issue with my Noblet Eb where the LH clarion notes, especially B, were very sharp. I found the Behn cutout barrel helped that a lot. He specifically mentioned that issue as something it corrects for so that is why I bought it. Maybe it isn't better/different from Corbin's, but I have never tried his.
I just bought a Yamaha Eb and don't have that issue anymore. It tunes slightly sharp but consistently across the board, so I just pull out. For altissimo C# and D I don't use the Eb key, typically for that reason (unless I'm trying to match the sharp flutes. LOL)
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-07-11 22:56
I have two mouthpieces for my 1970s Uebel e flat. One is a Buffet, the exit bore of which seems to have been lined at some point. The other is a Selmer, the exit bore of which is noticeably wider than the Buffet.
The Buffet tunes considerably better than the Selmer. The Selmer is flat in parts of the throat register, particularly where the side keys are involved, and very sharp at the top of the clarinet register (basically B and C). Unfortunately, the Selmer sounds much better than the Buffet.
I tried narrowing the Selmer’s bore with paper as an experiment, and everything went flat, so the narrower Buffet bore may not be the point.
Pillinger sells two different kinds of e flat mouthpiece to cater for the tendency of some old instruments to display these issues. The narrower bore suits the old instruments.
Anyway; if anyone has other ideas about this, I would be interested to see them.
graham
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-07-11 22:56
I fixed this same issue on my Noblet eb with a custom made barrel of my own taper design (I actually posted the bore profile of that one in another thread a few weeks ago).
I would suggest trying more aftermarket barrels and see if you can find one that works better for your mouthpiece.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-07-12 02:17
Brad Behn refaced a Zinner Eb blank for me in 1996 and I have been using that ever since- it tunes quite low (too low for my wife to use with a French orchestra). It was a Zinner "A frame" blank that Music Services used to sell (alongside the standard French blank). NOT a German blank, but a French blank with severely angled sidewalls. If you can find one this could be a solution
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2023-07-12 03:50
Hi Donald, do you know if Brad Behn's final stock of Zinner Eb clarinet mouthpieces is the same or a similar blank to what you have? He has a few left for sale on his website.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-07-12 05:01
You can ask him, but probably not. At the time, I had actually ordered another blank and been sent this one by accident (from the shop that Lisa Canning formerly worked at), and then took it to Brad to reface.
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Author: Mark Cookson
Date: 2023-07-15 04:21
I forgot to mention, those notes can also be very sensitive to how far the register key is opening, so it might pay to see if reducing that opening helps the tuning.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-07-15 04:49
Mark is giving you some good advice! (Hello Mark, LONG TIME no see! Hope all well down there in the windy city)
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2023-07-20 20:52
I like all the posts that suggest 'experience' with what ever u have. Remember it's the player and not the instrument. I have a $299 Woodwind Eb and I'm envied in my area because when I play, the tuner is right on!
I use Vandoren 4 WhiteMaster reeds for Bb (just cut the bottom off). With eefer, forked fingerings and throat voicing each note in what ever register is required. The tuning of the instrument is consistent internationally.
When I'm completely warmed up intonation is not a problem. I can get the altissimo Ab in tune, so I know that u can do it too!
Much love!
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2023-07-23 09:02
It seems to me you’re sincere in your quest for a better Eb experience. For me, and many others I deeply respect, the answer does not come from any commercial mouthpiece. I’m sorry to many folks out there, but ALL Vandoren mouthpieces are best used as a door stop. Just throw your Vandoren mouthpiece on the floor, and wedge your door open with it. In my Eb life, I have used Grabner, Backun, Selmer, Buffet, Behn (Zinner, Sono and Epic) and Clark W Fobes. The early Grabner mouthpieces were quite good, if you could find a Zinner based Grabner (good luck!) you might have your problems solved. The Behn pieces would also give you good results. The Backun, not so much, in my opinion slightly better than a door stop. Buffet and Selmer pieces all have high resistance and poor intonation. I have settled on the Fobes. His earlier Zinner based pieces were very good, but his new 10K with his own design blanks are totally marvelous. Hall filling volume, superb intonation, and a sound that never approaches shrillness.
Not to abuse the forum’s ethics, but I do have available several Zinner based Fobes Eb pieces, a Zinner based Grabner Eb piece, and a Behn Epic.
I wish you success in your Eb journey, as I really love the little guy, a lot!
Also - Nothing wrong with an R13! A Tosca is basically a very expensive R13, with thinner walls, and that cracks a lot - but they sure are pretty.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
Post Edited (2023-07-23 09:05)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-07-23 15:39
i still recommend the hite if looking for a off the shelf model. i bought 2 and both played exactly the same. a rarity these days. of course these were older models made by david himself .
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-07-23 19:53
KenJarczyk says:
“For me, and many others I deeply respect, the answer does not come from any commercial mouthpiece. I’m sorry to many folks out there, but ALL Vandoren mouthpieces are best used as a door stop.“
Hmm…you mean to say that Walt, Morrie, Brad, Clark, Greg, and everybody else who makes and sells mouthpieces aren’t commercial? I don’t believe they’re giving their stuff away, are they? Since when does “commercial” mean a large company?
Furthermore, let’s recognize this comment for what it is (like most everything else on this BB): one’s personal opinion and nothing more than that. There are more than plenty of clarinetists, shall we say - ahem - in perhaps more prominent positions than this poster who are perfectly happy with the Vandoren mouthpieces they use day in and day out. You don’t like them? Fine. Use what makes you happy. But to denigrate the choice of others as a door stop is just plain silly.
The following poster mentioned how much they like the David Hite Eb mouthpieces. Well, I couldn’t stand them! Is he right and I’m wrong - or are our personal preferences different? The latter, of course.
Maybe this addresses the original posters concerns, maybe not. To my knowledge, however (which is iffy, at best!), you don’t come across too many ensembles that actually tune to A=440.
Or do they? 🤷🏻♂️
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2023-07-24 23:32
Sorry to have poked a sore spot!
But, I stand by my statement. Large, commercial mouthpiece manufacturers pump out mouthpieces made by machines. The craftsmen, Grabner, Backun, Fobes, etc. all offer the end result of a handcrafted mouthpiece. Yes, their blanks have been made by a machine, but usually to the craftmen’s specifications.
I have many friends who also play on “doorstops.” I respect their opinion, but will always wonder what they may sound like on a custom piece.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-07-25 02:09
Whether a given geometry is mass produced by cnc machines or one off production by an artisan, does it really matter? If the shape is right why should I pay extra? I have been happy with my Vandorens. On my eb clarinet my vandoren B40 plays better than the Fobes San Fransisco which sits in a drawer now as my backup.
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Author: donald
Date: 2023-07-25 14:11
I can't speak for the current Backun mouthpieces, but back when they were all Zinner blanks... they were all Zinner blanks- by which I mean they were ONLY Zinner blanks with not much done to them. The huge price they used to charge (for what was pretty much an untouched Zinner blank) was shameful... and the marketing bollocks explaining the lines carved across the table etc pretty much made any scientist laugh it was so ridiculous. Maybe he's smartened his act in recent years but that original Backun range from the early 2000s did not qualify to be described as "artisan".
I played a concert once on an untouched Zinner blank, it worked ok, it didn't have crazy indentations scored into it and guess how much it cost? $40 US$
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2023-07-25 19:55
Just to clarify - no sore spot poked, touched, or scraped. However, you must see that what you state, Ken, is your own opinion and nothing more than that. But have you actually done a study of who plays what and why you think any given player would sound “better” ( as relative and personal term as there ever was!) on a so-called “custom” mouthpiece?
And to further clarify, I happen to play on a handcrafted mouthpiece and have done so for literally decades. But that was (and is) my personal choice based on what works for me, what facilitates what I want to sound like, allows me to play in tune, and is comfortable in all other respects.
But a custom mouthpiece isn’t for everyone for various reasons. For example, two members (maybe three?) of my former clarinet section (I retired after last summer), play on Vandoren B40s. They are all phenomenal players/musicians. Do you honestly believe that they have never tried and tested “custom” mouthpieces and made their own assessment as to what meets their needs both intelligently, tonally, and musically? Of course not! They chose that mouthpiece for its merits, not by default.
Furthermore, you could play a dozen or so of that same machined mouthpiece and come up with just as many different ways they might play. Just because they might come from the same machine doesn’t mean that they will play the same. Same design, yes; same results, no.
A custom mouthpiece might be better or might not be better for any individual player as we all - you included - have our own criteria as to what is best for us.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2023-07-27 04:27
I am very happy with my Greg Smith mouthpiece on my Tosca Eefer and Fobes extension play really well in tune. Have had very good luck with both Grabner and Fobes mouthpieces too. Much of my choices for these custom mouthpieces is for a pretty SOUND on the Eefer. No one wants to hear a schreechy sound. I try to sound like a higher Bb.
I think adding the Fobes extension seems to make the overall tuning of the Eefer much better and I'd suggest trying it first before trying other mouthpieces.
Eefer guy
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