 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2023-07-09 05:33
I have a question for all of u. I've noticed through my playing career an even on professional recordings many times the brass or strings cover up the upper woodwinds. I know in some professional wind ensembles, this doesn't happen. The upper woodwinds will have collective obligatto but u can't hear all that technnique they've had to work up due the strings or brass. As a player, why even invest in working ip up when it's going 2 b over powered? Any feelings/thoughts?
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-07-09 06:03
I might turn that around a little.
I've been in some ensembles over the years that where not so great; balances were off, intonation was ragged, tempo was sub par. In situations where things are not as satisfying as one would like, you have to find your own joy. Whether it is matching a pitch at a key point or with a key player, or just knowing you did a great job with a certain passage you must find the joy in whatever it is you are playing.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-07-09 08:33
EbClarinet wrote:
> The
> upper woodwinds will have collective obligatto but u can't hear
> all that technnique they've had to work up due the strings or
> brass. As a player, why even invest in working it up when it's
> going 2 b over powered? Any feelings/thoughts?
>
This generally happens for one of three reasons - the composer or arranger hasn't worked out the balances well; the conductor hasn't made much or any attempt to balance things so everything in the texture is heard; the players aren't listening to what's being played around them. Often one or another of these conditions is present in an ensemble, and when that's true the result is what you describe. I think you need to prepare as if you assume at least that the conductor is competent and the players are aware of good ensemble. If the composition itself is at fault and can't be adjusted to clarify things despite all efforts by the performers, it may just be bad music or bad orchestration.
I have to say I've rarely felt overpowered by strings (unless I'm only doubling them). Loud (usually out of control) brass playing is sometimes to blame. Also electronic instruments and amplified acoustic instruments (thinking of mostly pit and commercial playing more than orchestra or band settings). Even then, as a player, I think you need to be invested enough in the total result to do the best you can with your part and leave the rest to the others who are involved.
Karl
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2023-07-09 17:09
Paul,
I really like your turnaround.
I, too, have played in ensembles that were sub-par and at times frustrating, however, being a member of the group had other benefits.
But your reminder to "find your own joy" fits the situation very well and gives me solace.
Thanks,
Hank
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-07-09 18:25
If it's not a French horn ....then it's a horn that require you to forgive it's French .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2023-07-14 01:28
A truly good conductor balances as much a possible. If the winds are supposed to be heard and not just part of the musical "atmosphere" they get it done. Some composers over orchstrate their scores, Even with the great ones like Mahler they ask everyone to play so loud that it's the blend not the individual instruments that matter but the conductor sill has the lat word. The reason I always practiced my FFF sections is for personal pride and if, as happens, the conductor asked for our section to play separately, or worse, individually. Sorry maestro I didn't think it matters being so loud. :-)
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-07-14 17:34
Paul,
I have been thinking about your comment: "I've been in some ensembles over the years that where not so great; balances were off, intonation was ragged, tempo was sub par. In situations where things are not as satisfying as one would like, you have to find your own joy. Whether it is matching a pitch at a key point or with a key player, or just knowing you did a great job with a certain passage you must find the joy in whatever it is you are playing."
This perfectly explains the joy I often find in my ensembles. Obviously the better the ensemble the more "joy" I get out of it. But even in average community groups I have always tried to challenge myself to play a passage as perfectly and musically as possible, or, as you explain, match pitch with someone, particularly a key part, or someone I know is a really good musician. There is always a small thrill when you know you are solidly in tune and together with another musician (preferably more than one!)
My son in is high school and a good, but quite lazy clarinet player. He never practices but was first chair in his very mediocre small band program in our town. He isn't taking band in the fall due to scheduling but will be participating in the concert band and back in the Spring. I was talking to him about yesterday about this concept, and he suddenly piped up, "Oh, yeah. That happened a few times with the flute when we had the same part and we were in tune together."
Small spark, but hopefully the "joy" will catch on and take hold.
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