 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-06-17 22:59
Rather than continuing to beat this into the ground in SecondTry's posts, I want to ask the question directly of the BBoard's members who live and play clarinet *outside of the U.S. borders.*
It's clear that most American clarinet beginners in most public and private school settings learn to play single-lip. Apart from any judgment of one's being better than the other (which I don't really want to debate), it seems likely that the American situation stems from two sources. (1) Most American instrumental music programs are band-oriented and largely aimed at producing marching bands for the high school football programs. Marching while playing double-lip, while not impossible, is certainly less comfortable. (2) Many of the teachers throughout the school band programs are not primarily clarinetists (nor are the instructors of the "instrumental methods" courses in which they learn the basics of the instruments that aren't their majors) and are unlikely to have any exposure to double-lip, which takes time to develop. They will, therefore, most likely teach single-lip as working teachers.
But I want to take a very informal survey among our non-American friends here regarding the use of double- and single-lip in other places with, perhaps, different systems of music education. In your areas, which of the two types of embouchure is prevalent? Does it vary in the 21st century by national "schools" of playing, as I suspect it once did? Does one have preference over the other in the major conservatories or university-level performance programs?
It would be great if answers were limited to practices outside the U.S.A. and (if possible) that they exclude judgments. I'm really curious as an American-trained player with no study or playing experience outside American borders, what the global situation is.
TIA, everyone.
Karl
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Author: pukalo
Date: 2023-06-17 23:20
I'm in Canada and I started with double-lip when I first started clarinet in 5th grade, before moving to single-lip after finishing high school.
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-06-18 00:02
I’m in the UK and use single lip. However, I have dental complications which would preclude double lip; but it was out of fashion by the time I started learning in the early seventies.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-18 01:04
I live in Spain and here everybody seems to play single lip and that would appears to be what's taught in "Conservatorios" ,although I'm given to understand that playing double lip was pretty much universal here up until about the 1960s .
That there was this rather abrupt switch is interesting ( If it's true that is )
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2023-06-18 05:42
Karl,
I know I'm not your target audience on this, but there are plenty of kids (although a tiny minority, I'm sure) who participate in marching band playing double lip - just wanted to offer that little correction. There's even one really strong band out here in California that marches oboe and bassoons - I'm assuming double lip.
I'm curious to hear if the "French embouchure" (double lip) is still as widely used in France as it once was.
Anders
Post Edited (2023-06-18 05:43)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-06-18 06:40
Well, I did say it wasn't impossible to march while playing double-lip.
I've only taught two students who came to me as double-lip players (I've never switched a student from single to double or started a beginner with double). One was her band's drum major for all of her high school time, and the other switched to single-lip in middle school in anticipation of having to march in high school.
No responses to my query from France yet.
Karl
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Author: paulyb
Date: 2023-06-18 13:20
I'm in the UK as well and I'm struggling to recall meeting anyone here that uses or teaches double lip. This isn't to say that there aren't any, but does imply that they're in the minority.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2023-06-18 14:11
Just an aside – I've never played an oboe or bassoon, but, while both use double lip, it's out of necessity...there's no choice in the matter. And, when it comes to marching with a double-reed instrument (which seems really bizarre to me), you don't have a big piece of hard rubber or plastic which might bang your lip if you step in a hole or or get bumped somehow. I don't think it's realistic to compare double reed embouchures with clarinet and sax players who have an actual mouthpiece to deal with.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2023-06-18 15:26
To add to the UK statistics, I must have known perhaps 100-ish players over the years, and non played double lip. Nor have I once had even a dicusssion about double-lip playing with any of them. I had read about the method, but had gathered the impression that it was an archaic practice at the same level as playing with reed uppermost. It was a real surprise to me to learn from this BB that it still exists.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2023-06-18 18:04
My teacher (who was Italian, born in 1920) used to play double lip. He told me not to bother with trying it because he said that my top lip was too short.
I've lived in Europe since 1996 and have yet to come across any living professional clarinetist here who uses double lip.
Post Edited (2023-06-18 18:05)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2023-06-18 18:22
Thanks for all the responses. It almost seems as if whatever European tradition of double-lip existed in the last century abandoned Europe and Great Britain, got on ships and planes and came to the U.S., where it lives on as a minority practice but one that still has dedicated followers. We haven't heard yet from anyone in France (ruben?) nor anyone in Asia. But I don't expect the responses will be very different.
I'm honestly surprised that more of the tradition hasn't held on outside of the U.S., but that's why I asked.
Karl
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-06-18 19:13
I asked my teacher about it when I switched a couple of years ago. He had had a very formal training in music at a boarding school and then at University, later becoming a professional. I know of other professionals that went through his schools so he must have had good training. (This is all UK.)
He said that in his day they were given Buffet clarinets and Vandoren reeds and taught to play single lip, and there was never any discussion of any alternative for any of these things. He had literally never heard of the DL embouchure until I mentioned it.
However, after hearing me play two lines of my first piece DL, he said "that is amazing, you should definitely keep doing that" and I've been doing it ever since.
I only learned about DL through this forum, but I'm glad I did.
When I started playing clarinet, learning just from "A tune a day" at home, I did actually start playing DL, but switched to SL because that's what the book said to do. It was easier to control the instrument SL, but it did feel weird doing it, like a giant chipmunk. I had assumed that I would be playing as thought it was a recorder.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2023-06-19 11:04
Sorry, I must correct myself- I have come across one professional European player who plays double lip because his „bad teacher“ told him to when he was a boy :-)
https://youtu.be/AgkrVoUzOh8
Post Edited (2023-06-19 15:47)
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Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2023-06-19 17:33
I am in Canada. My original teachers, all Italian, played DL. So do I -- to this day. I recall that the way embouchure was talked about in the old days (the late 1950's and '60's) was quite different than now in that the two embouchures were seen as equally valid. It was simply a preference based on which approach felt more comfortable (and yielded better results) given the player's unique physical characteristics. For some, with shorter upper lips, DL is a non starter.
Side note: For a time when I was quite young, I thought only saxophone players played SL. In my limited understanding, I believed that classical/orchestra clarinets all played DL. Yes, I was naive.
Paul Globus
Post Edited (2023-06-19 19:21)
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Author: Reformed
Date: 2023-06-19 18:00
Henry Morrison (aka "Harry"), first clarinet in the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra in the 70's and 80's played double lip. He was my teacher for quite a few years.
He mostly played sitting down, with the bell of his B&H 926 full Boehm's held between his knees - he was not tall. He had a fluid and relaxed style.
I was never comfortable with double lip as my top lip is quite short and it hurt.
I think British musicians of that period were free from the need for conformity.
Post Edited (2023-06-20 01:56)
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2023-06-19 23:17
Completely off topic, but . . .
Reformed. I think you've solved a mystery for me. While at school I saw the wind section of the BBCSO play the Mozart Serenade for 13 wind at St Johns, Smith Square. It was a BBC Monday Lunchtime concert. I have a memory of the main clarinet player and you have described the man I saw. Over half a century, I'd wondered who that man was.
Thanks
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Author: Floydinoz
Date: 2023-06-25 08:32
I started clarinet in jr high and just accidentally began playing DL from the start.
As I remember I also marched playing the same way. Late in high school a band teacher suggested I take a bit more reed in the mouth and I found it easier to do so using single lip. Since there were no private teachers in my home town of Tifton, GA, I would credit starting DL with never needing to correct any aspect of my embouchure. I have never met or heard of a player in Australia playing double lip
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