 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-05-26 00:10
On a tip from my trusted tech about saving money on new instruments I just purchased a new Yamaha Eb from Howarth of London, for about $1,500 less than prices here in the U.S. (not that there are any to be had here that I could find anyway!). It shipped today and is already on its way. I have never purchased anything over $300 from Europe so I didn't realize until after it already shipped the complexity of customs and other taxes. Now I am hearing anything from $100 to $400 or more will be due to DHL prior to delivery (this is anecdotal. DHL themselves could not give me any indication on how much it would be until it clears customs).
Through a search on this site I see older stories of people getting charged back state sales tax years later, with interest.
I am not happy about the extra cost I wasn't figuring into my calculations but can live with it for a horn I will hopefully love and it is still a good deal. But are there other issues with buying this way I didn't realize? Does Yamaha not honor a warranty if I purchased this way? I understand the problem with a store warranty issue, but I believe I can send it back within 30 days if it is faulty or there are horrible problems with it (I am counting on Yamaha's reputation for quality and consistency here). Or if I just decide I don't like it enough to justify the cost I could sell it outright here, since they are so hard to find right now.
I'm just trying to understand what I have gotten myself into and whether I have made a horrible mistake. Anyone here done this recently and can hopefully reassure me, or warn me of things to be aware of?
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2023-05-26 01:11
Howarth is one of the top woodwind specialist stores anywhere so you’re in good hands in terms of the source. They should be able to advise on whether the warranty applies worldwide (it would be surprising if it didn’t) and on their returns policy for international shipments.
Unfortunately customs duties can make a painful dent in your savings, but you can’t blame the retailer for those! I discovered the same in reverse importing a second hand basset horn to the UK from the US. I naively assumed they only applied on goods bought new. The moral of the story is to be aware of the rules and check in advance what rate will apply. Usually the carrier has to collect the duty before the item can be delivered, so if you deal with it up front there shouldn’t be any nasty surprises later.
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Author: Mr. Mitch
Date: 2023-05-26 01:20
Musikat:
I purchased a Buffet from Matthews Muziek in the Netherlands last July and did not have ANY taxes of any kind applied to my purchase which was sent to the U.S. Perhaps this is a Brexit anomaly
https://www.matthewsmuziek.nl/en/home/
Mitchell D Benjamin
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-05-26 01:26
Wow! Fingers crossed. I checked Matthieus but they don't sell Yamaha Ebs unfortunately.
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-05-26 01:30
Since even DHL can't seem to tell me the amount in advance, I can't see how I could have researched the fees before buying. It's a big mystery until it actually hits customs, apparently! But good go know Howarth is a reputable company. I thought it was. Fingers crossed I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Author: LostConn
Date: 2023-05-26 06:38
1. I bought a Bb clarinet from Dawkes Music in the U.K. and was able to sign up to prepay the import duty as part of the transaction. The amount added was small.
2. Your state's rules and collection practices may differ, but I paid the state sales tax (referred to as a "use tax" when applied to otherwise untaxed online purchases) with my annual state income tax return. Not a big deal. It was self-reported -- no one sent me a letter or knocked on my door.
3. Would you have paid an extra $1500 just to get a warranty on the instrument? If not (and I hope not), don't worry about the warranty now.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-05-26 13:19
The Nethrlands are within the EU. , whereas the UK are within ....well !...the waters of the Atlantic ? ( Also debatable ?).
I don't know know about trade agreements between the US and UK , but between the UK and EU, one now pays import duty . Basically you pay tax on something twice . An additional 20 something percent .....and that's on the item plus it's initial tax .
I would be curious to know what taxes if any exist between the UK and US .
( let's avoid the pointless Brexit debate however ....it's all water under the bridge now .)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-05-26 13:43
If you ordered it from Howarth, you'd have bought it from them without paying the 20% VAT if you're not in the UK.
https://howarthlondon.com/vat.aspx
YCL-681II - £2490.83 excl. VAT - £2989.00 incl. VAT
YCL-881II - £2995.83 excl. VAT - £3595.00 incl. VAT (RRP £3670.00)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-05-26 14:44
Thanks Chris F,
So presumably the price Musikat paid is without VAT , but instead he can expect to pay import duty into the US whatever that is .
Still sounds like he's going to end up with a good deal !
Ps. I've bought from smaller shops in the UK and you end up paying the taxes of both countries ...UK to EU. ( Arrrrrg !)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2023-05-26 14:53
Source documents about US import tariffs: https://hts.usitc.gov/current.
Chapter 92 covers Musical Instruments.
Clarinets are classified under (sub)heading 9205.90.40.20 (the so-called commodity code). For goods under 9205.90.40 the standard tariff is 4.9%, 0% when imported from a country with which the US has an applicable treaty, and 40% when coming from 'unfavored' countries (usually sanctioned countries).
DHL is generally not very attentive in classifying goods, they may choose a wrong commodity code resulting in wrong tariffs applied. The code should be indicated on the shipping documents.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-05-26 15:54
The reason you are getting such a wide variety of answers is because 1) sometimes sellers undervalue the instrument on the customs forms 2) because many people don't realize you need to pay sales tax, either immediately or when you file your taxes 3) because this only applies above a certain dollar amount and very few people regularly spend thousands on clarinets from overseas. If everything is done by the books it will be 4.9% + state sales tax.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-05-26 16:45
Hi,
I'm in the UK and have bought a couple of things from the US since Brexit, and it seems to be all just a bit of a mystery what's going to happen. I think if you asked our actual government, most of the time they wouldn't entirely know either.
I have relatives in the EU and posting things there and/or back is also quite a mysterious business just now.
The deal seems to be that we have left the EU but we have not yet entirely arrived anywhere else yet. So each person is finding their way forward a little bit at a time.
My guess is that if you put £75 aside for unexpected eventualities then it will probably work out okay. Good luck!
Jen
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2023-05-26 16:46
Where a retailer has charged a tax we can't be sure they've actually passed it on to the relevant revenue authority. In the case of an item going abroad, but been charged full taxes, they might 'discover' the 'mistake' afterwards, correct their records for their own tax purposes, but not refund the customer unless they request it. If the customer was prepared to pay their full advertised price, didn't check import tax rules at their end, why should they worry. I doubt occasional overseas sales are a big revenue stream for these sorts of outlets, so making extra bucks on them, or not, won't be a big deal, but helpful if they do make extra bucks. I doubt the revenue authorities would go into whether a customer was refunded the overcharged tax or not. Their interest would be whether the retailer has passed on the correct amount of tax to them.
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-05-26 18:39
Hi Jen ,
Don't worry if you're finding things confusing at the moment .
The U.K. is a country ( but not really)
It's part of Europe ( but not really )
It lies in the Atlantic ( but not really )
And it has a Constitution ( but not really)
He-he-he ! ( hysterical laughter ).
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-05-26 18:57
Very true.
On the plus side, if anybody needs a laugh, then the UK stands ready and willing to provide. :-)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-05-26 19:21
Indeed !
The Empire was forged by forging forwards laughing in the face of all bioadversity .....Well!...that and sending in the Scots playing bagpipes..... No clarinets!...(must stay on topic !)
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-05-26 21:35
Last time I bought an instrument over $2500 from Europe, I had to pay about $300 in duties and other import related fees on top of the original shipping cost. Par for the course. Nothing to get too bent out of shape about.
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2023-05-27 01:10
Keep in mind the fees charged by DHL may not be actual customs duties that go to your government, but rather processing fees charged by some couriers, such as DHL, Fed/Ex, UPS, etc., that are a means, some say to trick purchasers, for actual additional courier revenue.
As one customs agent I know explained to me, these extraneous courier fees disguised as "brokerage fees" are like paying someone standing at the border $50 to hand your passport over to the customs agent.
Incoming courier shipments to Canada are notorious for these fees, as most American vendors prefer using couriers over USPS (which does not charge or collect brokerage fees) but are oblivious to what courier companys do at the border with shipments.
I never order anything from outside the country that cannot be shipped by mail.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-05-27 01:52
Those of you who have done this before, at what point in the process were you contacted for payment? I have been monitoring the tracking and it has arrived in New York and cleared customs. So far the only message I have received from DHL is this:
"Shipment has been given a release status by Customs."
"Unless there is an adhoc physical examination or a stop by another regulatory authority the shipment will proceed to DHL delivery facility."
Any clue what that means?
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Author: lydian
Date: 2023-05-27 02:12
It varies. Once, they would not deliver unless payment was made first. Other times I was billed after the fact, days, weeks, even up to a year later. Nice little surprise after I had totally forgotten about it.
You will probably get many such status updates. I got at least a dozen. That particular one means it cleared customs, and may or may not be inspected by some other government entity then go to a DHL facility, then proceed to the final destination. I don't see anything to be alarmed about yet. You can start getting upset if you see, returned to sender, which has happened to me on a package from China. Took about 4 months in all to finally get that one.
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Author: MarkS
Date: 2023-05-27 14:26
I purchased an A-clarinet from Dawkes recently, and had it delivered to me in the U.S. No problems at all. I was given the option to prepay shipping and duty in order to prevent any delays. I did that and received the clarinet 4 days after purchase. Shipping was about 70 USD and duty about 4%. The only "mistake" I made was to use Paypal for the transaction. Even though the transaction ended up on my credit card, the currency conversion was done by Paypal and added about a 4% foreign transaction fee. It would have been better to pay directly by credit card.
Dawkes offered a two week trial period, as well as the option to return the clarinet after 6 months for a 90% refund. Since I had not been able to find the model to try locally, I appreciated the "insurance" that this policy provided. As it turns out, I am very happy with how the instrument plays, so definitely keeping it.
Mark
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2023-05-27 20:09
My experience dealing with with courier imports at work (when staff have unknowningly shipped stuff to work address and then we get dinged with these extra fee bills) has been DHL seems to want payment prior to delivery, while Fed/Ex and UPS are more likely to mailing you an invoices weeks or months later.
Fed/Ex probably wouldn't contact you prior unless you have a customs-clearance brokerage account set up with them, i.e freight or pallet shipments at land crossings.
Probably also depends on point of origin - as DHL seems to be used more by Euro vendors for trans-atlantic shipments, while Fed/Ex is the favourite of American vendors within North America destinations.
I've never had this problem for the two instruments of mine that I bought from US or UK vendors, because I told them explicitly to send by US Parcel Service or Royal Mail. I don't recall paying anything on arrival, not even federal duties to teh gooberments.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-05-27 20:25
Brexit has no impact on UK trade with a non-EU state.
Regular exporters to private buyers tend to make clear to customers that there are likely to be domestic taxes and duties that it is for the customer to ascertain and pay.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2023-05-27 23:12
>Brexit has no impact on UK trade with a non-EU state.
Are you sure that's right? I thought that previously we traded with the US as an EU state, and now we trade with the US as a non-EU state. As I understand it, our trade relations with every country in the world changed, once we were no longer trading from with in the EU.
There's a great deal of discussion in the press here about how our prime minister wants to strike a new trade deal with the US president, but I don't know if that would affect US folks buying from UK shops.
I could be entirely wrong about this. It's very very confusing living in the UK just now. Such a lot of the stuff written in the newspapers or even said by the government is reputed to be untrue, so it's really hard to work out what's really going on.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2023-05-28 07:40
I bought a Buffet from Matthew's Music a few years back and only paid shipping (about $90) on top of their price without VAT.
You could have asked them if they would order the instrument you wanted (Eb).
Anyway, in the worst case, you will pay 4% import duty tax which would be much less than $1500 you saved.
Post Edited (2023-06-02 11:09)
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Author: graham
Date: 2023-05-28 20:26
Exports from the UK have always been free of VAT and subject to corresponding customs and consumption taxes in the country of consignment. But before Brexit, UK VAT applied to B2C sales to other EU states, so no customs and other consumption tax applied when such goods arrived in the EU state of consignment. It’s that last bit that has changed.
As to how a trade agreement between the UK and the US might affect customs duties on goods originating in the UK, that depends what transpires, but I for one wouldn’t delay any transactions to await that development.
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2023-05-30 05:31
Just an update. It was a minimal charge from DHL after all, and delivered in perfect condition today, just 5 days after ordering! It was nerve wracking, but it all worked out in the end.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2023-05-30 06:06
I was wondering if any of you have ordered from Ripamonti as they have some interesting clarinets especially the contrabass.
Would appreciate comments positive and negative.
Eefer guy
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-05-30 09:13
Hi Musikat,
Glad it all worked out well on your overseas purchase . That's good news for all .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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