 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-07-31 20:06
Hello. This is a bit intimidating for me, as you all seem like such experts. I played clarinet long long ago (more than 20 years), but have recently decided to give it another try.
My question concerns a clarinet up for bid on eBay. It might be easiest if I just paste the URL...http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1451003631
Can anyone tell me anything about this instrument? Is it truly a professional clarinet and worth the "Buy It Now" price? It sure looks nice from the photos. I would appreciate any feedback.
Thanks~
Beth
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Author: John Gibson
Date: 2001-07-31 21:44
Beth...
It appears to be a very good clarinet. I'd contact the seller...and offer to "buy it now" on the condition he allows you to return it after playing it should you not like it.
By the way. I hadn't played in nearly 35 years. Then last November started again...and it is truly a rewarding experience. I'm more focused than when I was a kid and find I can play better now than then....
John
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Author: connie
Date: 2001-07-31 21:56
The Leblanc Symphonie series is well-respected. I have an older Leblanc (serial # 8xxx) that is a fine instrument, in spite of a crack in the upper joint that was flush-banded in the 70's.. If you're looking to pay $800, you could do worse...I would see if you can get a one-week trial period just to make sure you like it.
BTW, I just bought a Mark VI alto sax from this guy, scheduled to arrive by UPS tomorrow...also sounded like a fantastic buy. I hope it's legit, but it seems to be. I'll know more after the instrument arrives.
Welcome back to the fold!
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-07-31 23:13
.... because you have been away from the Clarinet a time you might do yourself a disservice by _just_ buying a clarinet that sounds & looks like it might be nice on eBay or another venue. no offense intended to the Leblanc on ebay --- I like them just fine. there is no way we can tell you much about it, it's a crap shoort with a picture & a description, at best.
my statement has a personal edge to it. many of us have come back to the clarinet after _LONG_ layoffs. ditto for me.
when I "came back" I (immediately or pretty quick upon doing so) purchased a Buffet Evette Master Model. I didn't evaluate it properly. Didn't seek the trusted opinion of my teacher at the time. I ended up wasting some money.
(everyone please RELAX as I am _NOT_ bashing Evette's ... )
it would have been better if I could have had a clarinet to "take home & try out" & thereupon bring to my weekly Clarinet lesson for my Teacher to peruse. Afterward, he/she could give me the "upside, downside, should have & could have's" ...... _BEFORE_ I bought the clarinet.
Well, that's all 20-20 Hindsight for _ME_.
.... NOW, this is your adventure!
Best of luck,
mw
PS - One of the things that you must consider is, can you afford any mistake with this Clarinet? I (personally) think the price is a little high for an instrument this old. You can buy more current instruments for LESS. Ex: I know of a 20 y/o Leblanc LL for $500 from a reputable dealer. Buffet R-13's in very good condition --- 10-15 years old come up from time to time on ebay for $750 to &1,000 --- but, hey, I'm just a Buffet kinda guy! Beware: When an instrument sets for a LONG TIME ... it has to be handled --- brought back -- properly . That doesn't mean you should expect problems, just that they can surface. I have knowledge of many vintage horns --- most worked out great, a few were "not so great". : )
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-07-31 23:14
Thank you, Connie and John, for your replies. I'm very close to making a decision about this clarinet. I think I'll wait to hear about your also sax, John. Please let me know how that turns out. It could sway me in this deal.
I'm really excited about getting back to playing. All I've ever had were Selmer Signets. Then I inherited my grandfather's A. Lefevres (France) clarinet, which I know very little about. I recently bought a Vandoren 5RV Lyre mouthpiece off of eBay and hope that will be okay with whatever clarinet I pair it with. All the talk on here about mouthpieces and barrels sort of boggles my mind. I never had any idea...
Until I saw this Leblanc Symphonie 3, I planned to hold out and get an R13 (not that I'm really good enough to play on one....but I'm sure old enough! Ha!) But if this is truly as nice as it is described, I'm more than happy to save lots of money.
One problem I've always had is with the key plating. The acid in my fingers tends to wear it away very quickly. A clarinetist friend of mine used to put a thin layer of clear nail polish on the A and G# keys to help retard this process. Has anyone here heard of doing that?
At the moment, I can only play for about 5 minutes before my mouth gives out. But once upon I time, I played for hours every day. So I'm hoping.
I love reading these pages!
Thank you for your welcome~
Beth
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-07-31 23:17
mw ~ I didn't see your reply before I sent one back. But thank you for your thoughts. I will definitely ask for a trial period before I put down my money.
Beth
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-01 01:15
Sure. CONTROL YOUR EXCITEMENT, if you can. I make the worst decisions when I just _HAVE_ to have something! Everyone around me does, too.
Slow & steady wins the race.
Best,
mw
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Author: HAT
Date: 2001-08-01 16:17
I wouldn't pay more than $450 for this instrument under any circumstances. But that's me. You can get a used R-13 for under 1,000 easily.
David Hattner, NYC
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-01 23:00
Beth -
The Leblanc Symphonie 3 was made beginning in the mid-1960s. It is definitely not from the 1940s, as the eBay listing says. It looks very nice, but I agree with David Hattner that it's not worth the $825 Buy-It-Now asking price.
Leblanc has made good instruments. Dee, in particular, has an excellent Symphonie. However, I must say that many - even most - Leblanc Symphonie clarinets I've played have had a sound quality that was small and a bit dull. They make up for it with excellent workmanship and keywork that, for my largish hands, fits much more comfortably under the fingers than the Buffet or Selmer designs, and they play very easily.
For the money, I would watch eBay and get a Buffet R-13 with a serial number between 83,000 and 200,000, which come from the period 1965 to 1979. According to Kalmen Opperman, these were fine instruments and were more consistent than those made later. Also, the eBay selling price is lower -- $550-700.
The Buffets of this period had a concentrated, strongly centered sound, with a lot of resistance. When someone complained about the resistance, a repairmen would often bore out the barrel and even the upper joint above the register tube. The barrel can be replaced, but the upper joint cannot. Any reboring will show when you look down the upper joint from the top toward a light. The area above the register tube will be duller than below it. Thus it's mandatory to have a return option for any R-13 from this period.
If you're just getting re-started, you can rent, say, a plastic Yamaha for a couple of months. That way you can see how clarinet playing comes back to you. (It will -- much faster than you expect.)
If you're already back into it and want something good, by all means get the best you can afford. I'm one of those who can tell relatively little difference between beginner and "step-up" clarinets or even mid-level clarinets. A really fine instrument is paid for only once, but gives you back pleasure every time you play it, or even hold it in your hands.
It's easy to get excited about an auction item that looks good. If you're a Leblanc person and the bidding stays within your range, you'll be getting a pretty good instrument. On the other hand, another one will come along soon.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-08-02 01:55
Ken,
Thanks so much for your reply. I will tell you that I learned a lot today. I went to a music store near me and played on several professional clarinets. I was AMAZED. First of all, they each felt and played so differently. I fell in love instantly with the feel of the Leblanc Concerto. The keys fit my fingers so much better than the clarinets I have (all intermediate...and a few beginner horns that I've overhauled). But, honestly I preferred the warm, full sound of another clarinet - one I *didn't* at all care for the keywork. Unfortunately, they didn't carry Buffets, so I couldn't make any comparisons on that one. (But oh...how I want to.)
I couldn't believe that it was actually easier to play now on a very good clarinet (even being way out of practice) than it was to struggle with my student model (and crappy mouthpiece) 20 years ago, when I was used to playing 3-4 hours a day! I might never have stopped playing had I had a good instrument long ago.
I realize now that I need to test and hand pick my own instrument. They weren't even completely consistent within brands. (I know I've been away from serious clarinet playing for over 20 years, but my ears are still in good shape. I'm also a pianist, and *never* stopped playing piano. Getting the perfect piano was one of the biggest ordeals of my life.)
My next adventure will be to try out some Buffets...new and used, if possible. I'm willing to spend the money for a new one if I know for sure that it will play beautifully for me. So I guess that means buying a professional clarinet off of eBay might not be a good option. I know the seller of the Symphonie isn't willing to let me try it out for a week and return it if it doesn't suit me. Oh well.
I know this is getting long, but I also had to comment on the Optimal ligatures. When I first saw how much money they were on here I thought, "You've got to be kidding...for a silly little ligature??" I've changed my tune. That was the coolest little innovation I've seen in years. And it *did* make a difference. Gotta get me one of those, too!
Thanks again for all of your comments and suggestions.
Beth
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-08-02 02:04
Oops! Correction...not "Optimal" but "Optimum" ligature. Sorry if I made you all groan. Also, in an earlier post I mentioned about about John getting the sax from the same guy on eBay. That was wrong. I realized after I sent that that it's Connie who was expecting a new sax. Sorry about that too.
So...How is the new alto sax?
Humbled~
Beth
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-02 17:55
Beth -
I've played some Leblanc Concertos that have been excellent. If this one curls up with you and feels like an extension of your body, grab it now, if you can afford it.
The Vandoren Optimum ligature is good, though expensive. For me, string is even better, and free. Whenever I try a new ligature, I always compare it with string. Instructions for string are at http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=30979&t=30927 .
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Beth
Date: 2001-08-02 19:14
Hi Sue ~
As of now, I haven't decided on anything. My hoping to plan a trip out to Woodwind and Brasswind in a couple of months, if I can find some good air fares. Until that time, I'll pay my dues for hanging up my clarinet for so many years; I'll suffer with getting my chops back on an old Bundy that I recently overhauled myself. Being as I'm not allowed to sell the Bundy (it was my husband's as a child and his parents are all sentimental about it), I went ahead and put the best cork pads all over the upper joint and adjusted it as best as a plastic Bundy can be adjusted (the intonation is still awful). I even fashioned the thumb rest in a more comfortable position. It'll have to do for a while - hopefully not too long.
I just realized sitting here that my new mouthpiece, ligature, and reeds are worth more than the instrument I'm playing. I do have some Selmer Signets down in the basement. But I've already overhauled them in preparation for (hopefully) selling them off.
I'll have to be patient a little longer.
Thanks for asking.
Beth
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-08-05 00:57
HAT wrote:
>
> I wouldn't pay more than $450 for this instrument under
> any circumstances. But that's me. You can get a used R-13 for
> under 1,000 easily.
>
> David Hattner, NYC
You seem to imply that the Leblanc Symphonie III is a lesser instrument than the Buffet R-13. While I personally would not pay $800 for any instrument of this age (the Symphonie II is from the late 1950s and early 1960s), the Leblanc Symphonie III was a top of the line professional grade instrument and is in no way inferior to the Buffet R-13. Some people will prefer one and some will prefer the other. And of course there can be individual horn variances among the Leblancs as there are among the Buffets. This one could be a dog or it could be a jewel. The test is in playing it.
I have a Leblanc Symphonie that is an outstanding instrument in tone, responsiveness, etc and would not hesitate to try out a Symphonie III if ever I needed another horn.
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Author: dan powell
Date: 2001-08-08 01:11
i agree ! leblanc clarinets dont get the respect they should. both my LLand synph 3 out play my R13.one nite on a big band job the 1st tenor player forget his r13 and when we got to a song that called for clarinet he asked to use my LL .you should have seen the look on his face after just playing a few bars.after ward he asked if i would sell it!
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Author: Douglas Wachter
Date: 2001-08-14 04:31
My interest in this clarinet is to find out whether it has a modification of the key for the third hole. In a photo I saw on eBay it appeared to have a ring key in that position. I injured my left hand (mostly second and third fingers) as a young man and have been unable to play since. The problem is that I can't consistently cover the third hole -- I have lost some sensitivity in the fingertip.
Did I see right?
Thanks for any information......
Doug Wachter
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