 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-03-14 20:41
https://www.silversteinworks.com/omniguard/
Can someone recommend a similar product in the non-music world that, like this product with heat, allows one to conform a cushion around the front teeth--in this case the TOP teeth for this wannabee double lip player?
I'm sure the Silverstein product is quality, but 50 years at this game and I've learned that the second somebody "slaps a treble clef on the outside box a product" otherwise available to the masses, and markets it to musicians, the price goes up by 150%.
TIA
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-03-15 02:36
Clear mouthguards used in many sports use this same heat-to-fit process. Perhaps a person could shave a thin piece off of one of them and get it to work?
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
Or - for single use: a piece of floral tape folded to whatever necessary thickness.
Post Edited (2023-03-15 02:37)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2023-03-15 03:07
I had always used cigarette paper. I know of some people who have had a dentist mold something
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Author: HighWood
Date: 2023-03-15 03:13
Paraffin Teeth cushion from EARSPASM or Lipprotec or
See Tom Ridenour's Youtube on using parchment paper(the cheapest !)
John Gibbs
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Author: RefacerMan
Date: 2023-03-15 03:39
I've used white floral arranging tape for decades. It's wax impregnated paper. Works great and is inexpensive.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-03-15 03:56
EZO denture pads. They're gauze immersed in beeswax. The pads are made to fit over the length of a full lower or upper denture. You just cut off a piece long enough to cover your two bottom front teeth, warm it in your mouth a few seconds to soften the was, and shape it to fit. One can last a long time.
Before I learned about EZO, I used cigarette paper folded over a couple of times. Unglued is better than paper with a glued edge. Yamaha markets a version for reed players that is more expensive than standard rolling papers. But the Yamaha papers can be carried into school in a clarinet case without violating smoking policies.
Karl
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2023-03-16 00:53
Like the bees wax imbibed cloth trick ! Probably the cheapest and easiest to fit snuggly. They sell bees wax cloth sheets in bio food stores as an alternative to plastic wrap and so you get tons of strips and double usage !
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2023-03-16 00:57
Just popping in to welcome you to the world of double lip playing. I’ve been playing nearly 50 years and started double lip over a decade ago. No regrets!
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-03-16 22:02
I don't wish this thread to be YATADLE (yet another thread about double lip embouchure), but...
Thanks for your suggestions. As it turns out:
A few years ago I, as an adult, had my teeth straightened with an Invisalign "R" like product. During treatment, every few weeks you are sent an ever more constrictive set of upper and lower molds to wear on your teeth to approach your goal: worn near all the time, following by retainers worn during sleep in perpetuity once those goals have been reached. Molds of your teeth are taken at onset so that the appliances worn are customized to your situation.
Given that I kept the older retainers, one "upper" has proven to eliminate pain---but not fatigue.
I consider the transition to double lip embouchure to have basically two physical obstacles: the pain of the upper lips coming between the top of the mouthpiece and the upper teeth--which I've addressed, and the fatigue of using muscles to form that double lip embouchure that haven't developed the endurance of those muscle groups formed that allow me to play single lip for long durations--particularly for notes above ![[F6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f6.gif) .
So I guess, like a bodybuilder, goals are achieved over time, with progressively longer exercises, resistance, and patience.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-03-16 22:31
The pain comes from bighting. Stop the bighting and you don't need the teeth guard. Covering your teeth is just a crutch that allows you to continue bad habits.
I appologize if this comes across as mean, it is not intended that way.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-03-16 23:42
Hunter_100 wrote:
> The pain comes from bighting. Stop the bighting and you don't
> need the teeth guard. Covering your teeth is just a crutch
> that allows you to continue bad habits.
>
> I appologize if this comes across as mean, it is not intended
> that way.
..and I apologize if this comes across as mean.....it's just fact....
In my specific case you are wrong. You're not here, and if you were you'd know I've spent the last 40 years getting students to not bite--something I don't do myself. You'd know I play an M15 mouthpiece (a markedly closed tip one) with strength 3 reeds.
If I bit, no sound would come out.
This is not a difference of opinion. Your wrong, and probably not just for me.
Does biting exacerbate the problem--sure, but not cause it.
If your advice were sound why on earth would people like Tom Ridenour suggest protection devices for the upper teeth? Wouldn't he just say, "stop biting."
https://youtu.be/nDPhOZ_eQMs?t=891
Why would notes like ![[C6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c6.gif) be suggested to be taken with the right pinky down to relieve the upward pressure not being counterbalanced by other fingers being down on the top side of the instrument? Why would many double lip players play with their bell between their legs? Why did Harold Wright solo sitting down? Why would Kal Opperman have incorporated so much rest into his lessons with students transitioning from single to double lip? Why would he not have students initially go beyond ![[E6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/e6.gif) ?
https://www.amazon.com/Kalmen-Opperman-Excellence-Denise-Gainey/dp/B078Y7WQK8
A 70 year old friend still plays with something he calls drum skin on his upper teeth, as initially given to him by Opperman.
If I applied less pressure my embouchure would not be properly formed. Notes, if I could produce them at all that is, would be flat to the point beyond recognition.
Please don't respond to this with some notion of difference of opinion.
P.S. so everyone here who suggested a remedy (thank you) was, speaking in metaphors, was merely "supporting my drug habit" (biting)?
Post Edited (2023-03-16 23:57)
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-03-17 00:24
Tom's video clip suggests using wax paper for the first few days of learning double lip so that you don't cut you mouth. He does not say use a big cushy mouth pillow.
And he doesn't directly say it, but his implication is that the paper over the teeth would be discontinued once the muscles are properly formed. I think he is saying the same thing as me...
I was just trying to suggest you avoid spending money on a device that probably make your learning period last longer than it could.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2023-03-17 02:22
Hunter_100 wrote:
> Tom's video clip suggests using wax paper for the first few
> days of learning double lip so that you don't cut you mouth.
> He does not say use a big cushy mouth pillow.
Nobody has suggested such mouth pillow cushioning--it is irrelevant.
>
> And he doesn't directly say it, but his implication is that the
> paper over the teeth would be discontinued once the muscles are
> properly formed. I think he is saying the same thing as me...
First off, its one double lip player's opinion. Second, if you think he is saying the same thing as you, which was
"The pain comes from bighting. Stop the bighting and you don't need the teeth guard. Covering your teeth is just a crutch that allows you to continue bad habits"
then I think that you're living in your own world. To recap:
Tom says: you may have initial discomfort; hete's a remedy
You say: you're having discomfort because your biting. Stop doing that; in fact stop using teeth protection.
If that's the same I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
>
> I was just trying to suggest you avoid spending money on a
> device that probably make your learning period last longer than
> it could.
Then either you're not telling the truth here or you're one of the worst communicators I've ever had to deal with.
You want me to conflate "stop biting" with "don't waste your money," and mind you because (and you're wrong) it could lengthen your learning time. Good grief!
Let me school you. The top lip protection enables the practice that builds the muscles that expedite the learning process, not slow it down. You can't learn faster with a cut lip--which you can get without biting, because if you can't play you can't advance with either embouchure, single or double lip.
And let me get this right. I report success using a device for teeth protection I already owned, sitting in a draw collecting dust, but you responded so that I wouldn't waste my money?
Wait: is "so I wouldn't waste my money" code speak in your world for "I need to put the garbage pails on the curb for tomorrow's collection?"
Why am I annoyed: because you not only communicate in code only you know, but when deciphered, it's factually wrong.
Post Edited (2023-03-17 02:46)
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2023-03-17 04:41
I think we are at an impass here, so I am going to bite my lip and let this discussion move on without further comment from me. I hope whatever tooth guard you pick helps your playing advance.
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