 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lisa L
Date: 2001-07-30 01:07
hello all, on an entirely different topic, i am curious to know what people think of music degrees from liberal arts institutions versus from music conservatories. as a recent grad from a liberal arts college, i totally missed out on the music opportunities there - i didn't play clarinet for a while! so i am wondering what others' points of view are.... thanks!
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Author: Mindy's Mom
Date: 2001-07-30 01:30
As a graduate of Stetson University (a liberal arts college) I am very pleased with the education I received (BME -- Bach of Music Ed) and I know that there are many many others who have graduated from here who are very pleased with their degree. Stetson has been very highly ranked in US News and World Reports and it is a VERY respected college in the south. It is amazing to see how many students from Stetson are now teaching in the schools (music and reg education). It has so much of a good follwoing that many people hardly think twice when they find out you have graduated from there. youare almost a shoo-in for the job. I don't think that the school is inferior to a conservatory only in what you are planning to do with your degree and what kind of degeree you are looking to receive. If you are planning to become a performance major, I would suggest either going to one of the "big name" conservatories or going to a smaller liberal arts college (with a strong music program) where you can play and play a lot. At this stage, go to college to become even BETTER not have to butt heads and play the ego game, etc. After your bachelors, then you can go to one of the bigger name colleges or conservatories for your masters or what have you. My daughter is planning to go to Stetson for music and her teacher (who happens to be the professor of clarinet) agrees with me on this subject and has encouraged mindy to go this direction(granted -- Teacher really likes Mindy and her playing). I have this feeling that I am not making much sense right now but this is a topic I am very passionate about. I think that people need to make a decision based on their personality and what they are hoping to get out of muisc. I don't think that that anyone needs to say that because someone didn't grad from a conservatory they are in any way inferior to someone who has grad from a conservatory. Many poeple have a personality that would not work well in a big conservatory or in any ot the places wehre head games are played and egos are as big as teh sky in Montana but that doesn't mean that they are not good players. I had better stop now since I am working myself up in a bit of a tizzy.
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Author: clarinet713
Date: 2001-07-30 03:07
i agree with you-I'm at a small liberal arts college and i know that there would be waaaaaaay to much pressure from my fellow students at a conservatory-not that they are bad-but at this point in my life i know that a liberal arts college like the one i am at is what is best for me though i must admit at times i really wonder and feel like i should be at a conservatory-but right now i don't need that added stress in my life-people hating me bc i'm seated higher than they are or whatever-right now i need to be focusing on my playing and reaching my potential-i dont need to worry about everyone else. plus i like learning music, but i also like learning about other things as well because somehow it ties into music. ok that was like a little pep talk to myself but i agreed so i thought i'd give my 2 cents ! :-)
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Author: Lisa L
Date: 2001-07-30 08:58
you know, i think i totally agree with the 2 posts here so far. being at a liberal arts college, for example, and studying music, allows people to focus on themselves and not on the outside competition as much as if one were at a conservatory. i went to one of the women's colleges up north and completely gave up clarinet for a while, at least until i graduated; i guess i felt like i had to do that, in a way, just to not be overwhelmed with my other studies (i majored in economics). now that i am playing for fun... i sometimes wish i had gone to a conservatory, but then i also am glad i got the education i did! my 2 cents worth! :o)
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Author: Jerry McD.
Date: 2001-07-30 15:26
I think this is a great topic. I have personally seen both sides of this fence and I believe the answer lies in what you want to do with your music. If you want to be a player, I mean a real player, someone who puts food on the table and shelter over your head by playing your horn you are not doing yourself any favors by being a big fish in a little pond. You need to get to a place where you can be trained to be a professional, as well as expose yourself to the competition and expectations. If you have other types of aspirations for your music, teaching at any level, music therapy etc. I would ask why would you subject yourself to the stress of a "big name" conservatory? There is virtue in both paths and it is truly an individual question with no easy answers.
Jerry McD.
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Author: Ashley
Date: 2001-07-30 15:52
It is very nice to think that you can go to whatever school you want and be a professional performer, but it is just not so. I personally think that most people who think this way (that they love music but want to take it easy) do like to play the clarinet, but are not wholeheartedly dedicated enough to be able to go to a big name school and make clarinet your life. If you say that you would like to be a performer but it's too much stress to go to a conservatory, then you definitely should not pursue professional performance. If anything, school is the easy part. As for going to a small liberal arts school and then going to the prestigious conservatory, there is little chance of that happening. People forget that you have to audition to get into these schools, and you will be competing with all the people that went to undergrad at other big name schools. If one can't handle the stress in undergrad, there is little hope for graduate school at a high-ranked conservatory.
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Author: Lisa L
Date: 2001-07-30 19:59
I totally agree!! Personally, when I was evaluating my college options a few years ago, I finally decided that getting a liberal arts background, for myself, would prove to be more useful, i.e., I'd be more marketable in the job-related world. So far that has proven to be correct; and I think that if I can work and have my clarinet too (for fun), then that's where I'd be happiest. Besides, I can still take lessons and learn what I want, etc., and that's what I enjoy most. I thought this was an interesting topic, because it is one I had debated a lot over during my college years! What are some other points of view?
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-07-31 01:13
I know a few clarinetists offhand who went to small schools and now have big jobs--it depends on who you study with and how you play. Who your teacher is can be a big deal. Two of the three players that I am thinking of went to lib. arts colleges for undergrad, and bigger schools for grad. (They seemed to have had no problem getting in.) Some small schools will turn you into a great musician because of a key teacher or two and some big name schools will not give you much of an opportunity to play. What do you want out of music school? I went to a state college, had a fantastic teacher, and now I am going to apply to bigger name schools for grad school. My playing is better because of where I went--I had a ton of opportunities to play challenging and soloistic music that I might not have had otherwise. Sure, some of my peers did not push me like they might have at a more competitive school, and many did not take music very seriously, but my standard was to better myself, and to sound more and more like my teacher, who was an amazing player. Perhaps going to a big school will help in initial rounds of an audition, but ultimately it is how you play that really matters (political issues aside, we hope). I guess the real question is, do big schools make better musicians, or are the musicians who go there already better to begin with? There are also great summer programs that look good on resumes (if that is part of what you are interested in) and that will develop musicianship.
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Author: Sheryl
Date: 2001-07-31 02:55
Be careful not to confuse "big schools" with "big name schools." Juilliard is very small compared to Indiana University, yet both are "big name schools." Size and reputation are unrelated. One can attend a highly-rated school and get lots of performing experience. The opposite is also true. Also, one can perform quite frequently and still perform poorly. Another point to consider is that most "big name schools" have earned their good reputations by having very good professors and consistently producing competent graduates. While it is possible not to attend a top-notch music school and still become a good player, the odds of achieving greatness are higher for those who do attend highly rated schools. From my own personal experience, I have seen many clarinetists who received performance degrees from non-big name schools apply to highly ranked graduate programs and be rejected in favor of players who did attend big name schools, which better prepared them for graduate study in performance. Players who are not used to being in a very competitive environment are often shocked by the level at which other players their own age can perform. Of course, none of this matters if the person is not pursuing a career in performance.
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Author: Ashley
Date: 2001-07-31 04:33
Yeah, Sheryl, you basically said it. As for Suzanne's question if big-name schools actually have superior education or just have superior players to begin with, I would venture to say that both are usually true. Teachers want to accept players that they think will thrive most within their teaching environment. In the leading schools, I would actually say that a student's improvement has much more to do with the teacher than the student's level of playing upon entering the institution. Speaking from experience, I basically had to re-learn how to play the clarinet when I entered college. At the undergraduate level, many applicants sound very similar, no matter where they went to high school or who they studied with. The difference comes after the 4 years of college, when you hear applicants and you can tell if they went to a prestigious school or not. The teachers at my school are extremely successful, both in performance and in teaching. It is important to have teachers that consistently play outside of the school. One learns a lot simply from regularly watching great players in action in addition to lessons.
As for this competitive edge at big name schools that has been repeatedly referred to, I find that this is not always the case. The competition is much more with yourself than with others. Having said that, in addition to learning from your teachers, learning from your peers is an invaluable method of education. Having great players around you all the time, in orchestra, wind ensemble, or chamber music groups provides you constantly with the opportunity to learn from them. Going to a lesser-known school where music is more of a hobby than a way of life, one probably will not receive the same advantage.
There are sad facts in the lives of music majors--no matter where you go to school the odds are never great that one will actually get a fabulous job--but the odds are significantly increased if one has the opportunity to study with wonderful teachers at a high-ranked school.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-07-31 13:55
It is my strong belief that any musician aspiring to a professional career had best have a parallel study.
Football and Basketball players in the college ranks are catching on to the unpredictable nature of playing professionally, why not musicians?
There is a local kid just coming out of Williams college that is a brilliant player.
Williams is a liberal arts school with reasonably strong academics and an excellent musical development curriculum (OK, it's not the Peabody or Curtis).
He will be making the rounds auditioning this Summer for serious gigs, orchestrally and for commercial work.
He has a computer programming (applied mathematics) degree in parallel.
This way, he can eat while getting gigs without teaching 10 hours/day.
Make no mistake, if you get into the Conservatory you will probably get a decent gig but it may not be full time.
It may broaden your horizons (and pay the bills) to go Liberal Arts and get something marketable to a wider spread of employers.
anji
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Author: Lisa L
Date: 2001-07-31 20:03
hi anji,
i am familiar with williams... i went to school in the "valley", in hampshire country (MA), not too far east from williams.
i didn't check into my college's music program too much... i probably should have!
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-08-01 21:14
I guess I just want everyone to know it's not impossible...
My flutist friend attended Univ. of Alaska for undergrad and Cal State Long Beach for her master's (neither of which are big name music schools), and now she is going to Eastman for her PhD, so it's not impossible...
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