 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2022-11-27 06:46
A question for techs. Heating a pad cup to soften the glue, in order to reset the pad, is usually done with a flame torch. Is possible to use an electrict soldering torch on the cup ? This would reduce the risk of damaging the body of the instrument.
Thank you.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-11-27 07:22
But you also have to REPLACE the pad. You cannot "re-seat" an old pad (it already has a crease that had set to a very specific depth and angle based on spring tension and age).
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2022-11-27 07:54
There are definitely situations where you need to reseat a pad. Usually if it was not installed properly in the first place, the tone hole
needed to be re-leveled to fix a chip or if the key was bent and had to be bent back in place, all things that are quite common in my experience (just had to do 2 of those today alone!)
To answer the original question, yes but...
You can definitely get it hot enough and there are even tools specifically for this (Votaw makes one I believe). But there are 2 reasons why I am not a fan.
1) Anything metal you place against the pad cup has the potential to scratch and silver especially is very easy to mark with the tip of a soldering iron. Yes I realize the mark is so small most people won’t notice but I like to be very careful with my repair work.
2) With some practice it is very easy to get precise with a torch. I’ve only ever burned a clarinet body when I was first starting, and fortunately I started learning repairs on already junk instruments from eBay. If you are really worried put a piece of paper between the pad and body when heating.
A better solution is a hot air gun, several instrument repair suppliers sell these.
-JDbassplayer
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-11-27 08:53
Alan,
I use a soldering gun similar to Weller D650, with the soldering tip cut in the middle, so the cup is heated when I touch it with both ends of the soldering tip.
At first, I was using the soldering tip to heat up the pad cup, and it took really long time (25-30sec.), and I never knew when to stop heating the pad cup.
By cutting the tip in half, I created a tool similar to the one sold by Votaw (but a rudimentary one), where the cup is heated not by the soldering tip but by the high current flowing through it.
It works for me because I am not a repairer, I occasionally fix my own clarinets and also for some of my band mates.
However, the tech I go to for repairs/ adjustments I cannot do myself, has the tool from Votaw and it is a very nice one, much safer than a torch or even a hot air gun because it does not heat wood at all, only the pad cup, and does it very quickly- one second is enough to heat up a smaller cup.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-11-27 09:19
I'm a simpleton who has always used a match.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2022-11-27 10:19
>> But you also have to REPLACE the pad. You cannot "re-seat" an old pad (it already has a crease that had set to a very specific depth and angle based on spring tension and age). <<
As jdbassplayer wrote, sometimes you do this and it does work. Probably less than 5% of the time, likely even less (I never gathered statistics...), which is why it's often not even worth trying... but sometimes it is and it works. Though there are a few more common reasons for why it doesn't work than the one you mentioned.
>> With some practice it is very easy to get precise with a torch. I’ve only ever burned a clarinet body when I was first starting, and fortunately I started learning repairs on already junk instruments from eBay. <<
I guess you could burn a clarinet body with a flame but it's rare. I've done my first ever clarinet repad on a plastic Eb clarinet using mostly my home stove, with no burning or melting the body. It's much more likely to burn (or melt) the pad itself, which also rarely happens with experience, but more of a problem with less experience and if you don't have an extra one...
>> Anything metal you place against the pad cup has the potential to scratch and silver especially is very easy to mark with the tip of a soldering iron. <<
The Votaw tool tips are made of graphite. I wouldn't use a regular soldering iron (one tip) mainly because it's so slow, but a soldering gun can be used like m1964 described. One advantage over the Votaw tool is you can open the tips more (the Votaw tool is a little limited in that) and you can use the polished sides of the round tips (or polish them more). You can also try wrapping with aluminium foil. This (the Votaw or a split tip gun) is also much faster.
FWIW I have pretty much all the tools mentioned (many flame tools, the Votaw tool, soldering gun and iron, hot air tools). For soprano clarinets, I use mainly a flame to melt the glue in the cup, and mainly the Votaw tool and occasionally an air tool if I need to adjust a pad while the key is assembled.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-11-27 12:21
If a pad is seating very unevenly so it's too light on one side compared to another and the impression is still concentric with the tonehole crown then they can be reseated provided the adhesive used is shellac or hot glue and can be softened using heat.
A good starting point when seating pads is to have them seat with even pressure all the way round, or with slightly more pressure at the front than the back.
Having the fronts seating too lightly (which is all too common) will only make things feel squishy or spongy under the fingers and when multiplied several times (and especially with several pads all closing at the same time as in basset clarinets, basset horns and low C basses), that will only end up in poor response with all those leaks.
I use a flame and use it to glance the pack of the pad cup as that's not going to risk scorching or burning anything whereas pointing the flame straight at it is most likely to scorch the body which I've seen on instruments repadded by clumsy arses who shouldn't even work on them. Use a small gas flame and use a lot of care and things won't end up a crime scene.
Using a hot air torch is more risky as it's not always as precise as a gas torch flame as the heat is dissipated over a large area rather than a pin point and in the wrong hands will only end up in tears. The positive side of using a hot air torch is with lacquered keys and keys with pearl fingerbuttons as the risk of scorching is low, so ideal for vintage saxes with nitrocellulose lacquer and small diameter main action pad cups with the fingerbuttons crimped into them as you'd have on the LH1 fingerplate on altos and most soprano and sopranino sax main action pad cups.
There are the split tip soldering iron-type tools to heat pad cups which rely on conductivity to heat the required pad cup, but they can mark or scratch the plating if used without any care, although they are the safest option as the risk of scorching the body is low. They can also be used to help remove stubborn pillars and other parts screwed into the joints.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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