 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alvarinb
Date: 2022-10-10 19:57
Hi, so I have a Festival and Tosca and they both play in tune (442hz) with a vandoren DB5 and a 65mm barrel.
The problem is when I try to tune it to 440hz, the 66mm is too sharp. Using a Korg tuner i Found that I need a 68 mm Barrel to be in tune (I have a Moennig 68mm and a Backun 68.5mm).
So more than a question this is an observation, it seems that standard Vandoren Mouthpieces are tunned to 442hz and they need an extra long barrel to be in tune with 440hz. Is this always the case or is only my problem?
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Author: rs cl
Date: 2022-10-10 21:37
Hi,
I've played and owned both Festivals and Toscas and played with BD5 13 Series and now play only BD5 non-13 series.
For 442 I use a 65mm and for 440/441 a 66mm.
On the 13 series I would use the 65mm to play at 440hz.
Using a barrel so long will create other different intonation problems throughout the instrument. Toscas play generally better in tune than the Festivals, but I have never, even when playing non-13 series BD5s needed anything longer than a 66mm barrel to play in tune.
To require a 68mm barrel probably means a bit more work on embouchure is needed.
Have you tried the 13 series BD5? Do you also pull out the clarinet at different points? I believe Festivals play best in tune with the middle joint pulled a bit, and maybe 1-2mm in the barrel too, as the instrument warms up.
Cheers.
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Author: alvarinb
Date: 2022-10-11 00:05
Hi, yes I think something in my embrochure might be the problem as it doesnt make sense that on the 65 mm im in tune with 442 hz.
You are right that the Tosca is more in tune but I will do further testing, anyways your experience is very valuable because now I have a better idea what to expect with my current mouthpiece and clarinets.
I found out just how much not in tune i was yesterday trying to play along some accompaniment CDs I had with my Festival, i had to pull out the barrel quite a bit when i measured it with a ruler i saw that the total length was 68mm.
What kind of other problems would a 68 mm barrel create?
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2022-10-11 00:15
Some people have the oppose problem. You just adjust accordingly.
Get a 13 series mouthpiece or use a longer barrel. Both can work.
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Author: alvarinb
Date: 2022-10-11 02:14
On your personal experience, is there something bad that can happen with a clarinet by using a 68 mm barrel? as RS_CL said, maybe intonation problems?
JamesOrlandoGarcia wrote:
> Some people have the oppose problem. You just adjust
> accordingly.
>
> Get a 13 series mouthpiece or use a longer barrel. Both can
> work.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2022-10-11 03:08
It's not going to do damage to the instrument. Try it. If you can play reasonably in tune, then you're good. If not, maybe not. There's nothing ethically wrong with it!
You may also want to look into pulling out a tiny bit at the middle joint. I have a set of tuning rings (.5, .75 and 1mm) from Clark Fobes that make that very easy.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2022-10-11 11:21
>> Is this always the case or is only my problem? <<
It doesn't have to be one or the other. Two players (considering excellent ones) can have slightly different tuning using the same clarinet, mouthpiece and reed. The barrels could be different in more ways than just the length.
The difference between 440 and 442 is about 0.45%. The difference of 3mm (65mm and 68mm barrels) varies for every note since the proportion changes. Randomly going with open G, which is about 229mm with a 65mm barrel. Changing to a 68mm barrel would lower it by about 1.3%, about three times as much as the difference between 440 and 442. This difference increases and decreases for short and long notes respectively, plus there other variables, but it's a good approximation.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-10-12 00:12
I would try to go to a reputable clarinet technician (one who also plays well) and see what solution they can offer.
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Author: alvarinb
Date: 2022-10-12 01:02
Ok thank you all for your advice, ive been doing some testing with some 66 and 67 mm barrels with the Buffet Festival.
Maybe im the problem or maybe im not really good at measuring but both sizes seem to be in tune with 440 hz, the main difference being that clarion C is more i tune with the 67 mm barrel, but thats it. It is maybe important to note that i dont have the 66 mm barrel that comes with the festival, I only have a greenline icon, a Backun fatboy and a moennig in 66 mm.
The Tosca seems to be more consistent on being in tune with the stock 66 mm barrel after some adjustments on my chin position.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-10-12 05:59
I would suggest to get a 66mm Festival barrel.
If not available in the US (or whatever state you live in), it can be ordered either through local to you Buffet dealer or directly from place like Howarth in the UK.
The original barrel most likely will tune the best. Another possibility could be a 66mm Moennig barrel, but I would definitely try Festival barrel first.
Even though the Festival is advertised as having poly-cylindrical bore like the R13, there could be slight differences between how Festival and R13 barrels are bored. A barrel that "works" for 10 people, may not work for you, for various reasons.
Again, depending on where you are, it could be very helpful to see a qualified technician who may have more than one or two barrels in the shop.
It may be the easiest way to solve your problem.
If you are not far from NYC, I can recommend someone.
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Author: alvarinb
Date: 2022-10-13 06:11
Thank you for the advice, yes I think i will buy a 66 mm festival barrel somewhere, unfortunately I don’t live in the US so I will need to contact my local Buffet supplier. But can you please send me your contact from NY? so I can visit whenever I’m back there.
One more question, you also recommend the Moennig barrel in 66 mm but I read somewhere in these forum that the Moennig is not a good match for the festival because it is reverse tapered or something like that?
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Author: rs cl
Date: 2022-10-13 11:13
Good advice here. I agree with clarnibass, and what I was getting at - you need to consider how a longer barrel will affect the tuning of different notes.
A few things:
- I prefer to play on one barrel, for one pitch, regardless of the ambient temperature. That is because I'm familiar with the sound and intonation of that barrel. With a longer barrel you may not be able to play sharp enough if the room you're in is a bit cold, or you need to switch instruments if you're playing in orchestra/doubling. If it's extremely cold I won't play a wooden instrument, and if it's extremely hot - nobody else will be in tune anyway so just try your best.
- Having a longer barrel will make the throat notes flatter than the notes at the end of the clarinet. If it's the clarion C you're most worried about then you're better off pulling out at the bell and middle joint slightly because (in addition to the barrel), as clarnibass put it so well, the barrel will only give a small percentage change to that area.
- I would absolutely not buy a barrel sight unseen from a webshop etc. Go to any shop you can and try them, or see if you can get several on a trial basis.
I'm not saying my point of view is gospel - everyone is different - but this is what works for me an what I think about.
Good luck! Happy to provide any other advice/discussion.
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