 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hardlec
Date: 2022-08-19 19:25
I bought an E flat clarinet off Amazon.
It is a beautiful instrument but it plays almost a quarter step flat.
Drilling a hole in the bell seems to be recommended. Some have suggested a hole through the tenon joint. This offers a variable hole size or the ability to close off the hole completely.
Right now, I am willing to try anything.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2022-08-19 19:43
Is the entire range of the instrument flat or just a few problem notes?
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2022-08-19 19:58
Mine was flat too; I bought a short Chinese barrel from ebay for £8.50!!!
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Author: Hardlec
Date: 2022-08-19 20:23
The whole instrument is flat.
Some notes worse than others.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2022-08-19 20:56
There are many companies that sell barrels, but they will probably cost more than your instrument did in the first place.
I got a Pereira3D barrel for my Noblet. He sells 2 models, the cheaper one is only $60 and he will 3D print it to fit your instrument in the event it has a weird tenon size.
You should also think about changing the mouthpiece too. If you are using the one that came with the instrument, it is probably not good.
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Author: Hardlec
Date: 2022-08-19 21:18
I really want to play for awhile before I look at a mouthpiece. I don't know what I'm looking for yet.
But I may buy the shorter barrel.
Thanks.
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Author: Chris_C ★2017
Date: 2022-08-20 02:09
Just looked up my barrel. It was described as "Adjustable E flat Clarinet Barrel Treble Pitch Pipe, the Second Section..." which doen't offer a lot of hope , but for £8 I took the risk. Not adjustable and I had to ream out the socket at one end a little, but it did the job and raised the pitch as desired - about 2mm shorter than the original. Of course, I only paid £35 about 20 years ago for the instrument which was in a bad state and needed quite a lot of work. A Boosey & Hawkes plastic Imperial.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2022-08-20 14:52
Drilling a hole in the bell would only affect two notes. LowE/B.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2022-08-21 09:13
What make/model Effer and mouthpiece do you have?
My Eb (R13) is always sharp. The mouthpiece/reed combination can help or hurt this. Too close a facing with too soft a reed could make everything flat(ter).
FWIW, I’ve found the Vandoren M30 or BD5 Eb mouthpieces to have good intonation, tone and response with Traditional or V12 #3.5 reeds. The Eb B40 or B44 are also good choices.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-08-21 15:38
Hi,
When I got my clarinet it played very flat across the whole instrument (for me). The local tech took a bit off the length of my barrel and the whole instrument now plays perfectly in tune. Would that work with yours?
Sorry if this is a daft suggestion, I'm not super experienced in this stuff.
Jen
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2022-08-21 22:03
Interesting conversation here.
Against my better judgement to even contribute here, I have a few observations (whether you want to hear them or not) but the one thing we do not know is what kind of player the original poster is and what kind of experience this person has with the Eb clarinet, an animal quite different from its larger brother. So, with that in mind (or, I guess, not in mind?)…
1. Seems as if the first issue is buying such an instrument from Amazon. What instrument was this? What did you know about it before purchasing it? And, btw, if an instrument is playing a quarter tone flat, well, it’s hardly what I would refer to as a “beautiful” instrument. As stevesklar just mentioned, you could (and probably should) simply return it.
2. If your experience is limited on Eb, it’s more than possible that you don’t know how to voice it correctly and that possibly could be a factor in the pitch problems you have. Also, your embouchure just might not be up to par, not to mention breath support and other fundamentals. These are things you haven’t mentioned.
3. Looking for a shorter barrel isn’t the answer as it won’t address other problems in your playing and will affect the scale unevenly. Cutting off a barrel is just as silly, imo. Doing either one of these things is only ignoring shortcomings in your playing (poor embouchure, use of the air, etc.). What’s more important is finding a good mouthpiece/reed combination (starting with a good mouthpiece first!) on which to make an adequate sound and continue from there. Anyway, you never mentioned the length of the barrel!
4. Drilling holes? Seriously? Laughable, at best. Again, fix your playing and/or find an adequate instrument. In general, you shouldn’t need to be doing anything that outlandish or radical as some of these suggestions.
5. A harder reed? Maybe, depending on the mouthpiece - should it be a half-decent one, that is.
6. Again, you haven’t told us anything about your experience and level of playing. However, the best suggestion here was to practice and continuing to learn how to approach and play the Eb clarinet correctly.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-08-23 00:50
i took a different tack on getting my eb up to pitch. its a robert paris horn and the barrel tennon is a very odd size. no off the shelf barrel comes close to fitting. rather than having a special custom barrel made-i shortened the mpc on a lathe. now plays at a441
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Author: pewd
Date: 2022-08-23 20:44
It seems to me the wrong approach is to purchase instruments sight unseen, off of internet sites which do not specialize in the sale of musical instruments, followed by spending an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to modify things to get them to play properly. If it is out of tune, as someone else noted above, the answer is simple: return it.
Providing more information would certainly help generate more meaningful suggestions: the OP's experience level, reed/ligature/mouthpiece setup, etc.
I don't believe the OP indicated what brand of instrument this is? Is it something we've all heard of, or it one of the latest overseas CSOs? If you don't know what CSO means... search the archives, there are some amusing threads.
Have you had another, proficient Eb player play this instrument, on their mouthpiece, to see if they have the same tuning issues?
If you search the archives on this board, you'll find many threads and comments discussing the process of purchasing instruments. Perhaps spending some time reading those past threads would be helpful.
For success in purchasing clarinets, I always recommend finding somewhere where you can play test and compare multiple instruments prior to purchase, using your mouthpiece, reeds, and a tuner. Identical new clarinets are not identical. They sound and respond differently. It is similar to the process of purchasing a new car: test drive it first or you might end up with a lemon.
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2022-08-23 22:58
It is too bad that quality instruments are so expensive now. Even used instruments bought at a "reputable" shop will be double their auction site price. Even with a full repad and overhaul it is cheaper to avoid an in person store. Compared to the price of even a new E11 eb, those $150 amazon specials seem so tempting to the uneducated buyer.
I wonder why music shops are not kicking down Buffet and Selmer's doors demanding more student level options? I suppose someone did the math and they make more profit off a few $5000 sales instead of a truckload of $800 student/intermediate models.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2022-08-24 01:27
super20dan wrote:
>i took a different tack on getting my eb up to pitch. its a robert paris horn and
>the barrel tennon is a very odd size. no off the shelf barrel comes close to
>fitting. rather than having a special custom barrel made-i shortened the mpc on
>a lathe. now plays at a441
If I recall correctly, you also got a shorter barrel for your Bb clarinet. Is it possible that you are the one who is flat rather than two instruments? As a sax player myself, primarily, it's easy for me to play flat on clarinet. At least I recognize the source of the problem.
Post Edited (2022-08-24 18:44)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-08-24 15:38
yes i admit i play with more of a sax embouchure. i spent 99 % of my career playing sax. all i play now is clarinet but i am not about to change the way i play now as i can only play for brief periods of time due to skin issues with my lip. i found work arounds for this and make no apologies . i can play my bundy eb with stock barrel in tune just fine so it isnt all me.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2022-08-24 18:43
super20dan wrote:
> yes i admit i play with more of a sax embouchure. i spent 99 %
> of my career playing sax. all i play now is clarinet but i am
> not about to change the way i play now as i can only play for
> brief periods of time due to skin issues with my lip. i found
> work arounds for this and make no apologies . i can play my
> bundy eb with stock barrel in tune just fine so it isnt all me.
I hear you. I fall back into sax embouchure and even sax fingerings at times. It's been really tough for me to learn clarinet late in life after 45 years of playing sax. But I'm determined to fix my embouchure and make the stock barrel on my Leblanc work. I can't bring myself to spend any extra money modifying my $50 clarinet for the sort of stuff I play - trad jazz, 20s-30s dance band music and 40s-70s big band.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-08-24 21:33
Dan,
Have you experimented with any of the products that cover the bottom lip and reduce pressure against it? Some of these are made from paraffin wax and others from more high tech materials. You can research them using these key words:
Charlie Stewart Liprotek; Silverstein Omni Guard; Lip Guards, Dental Lip Protector. I've never played sax, use a very close facing with an easy resistance curve, fairly light reeds, and a light double lip embouchure, so I don't get serious indentations or cuts on my lips. But being human and subject to infirmities, I could still have unsuspected lip problems in the future. Have you tried double lip? If your upper teeth aren't sharp and your upper lip is at least medium long, double lip could be of assistance.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-08-25 15:32
seabreeze i appreciate the info but my skin issue is the outer part of the lower lip. it becomes swollen and the outer layer of skin peals off making it painfull to play at all. i have been to multiple drs and even the mayo clinic with no help. this ended my proffessional playing Carrer. i know play for fun only when i can which is seldom
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-08-25 17:24
Dan,
Sounds like you have a health problem that might benefit from the new medical specialty called "Performing Arts Medicine." The Cleveland Clinic in Ohio has a department dedicated to providing specialists intimately familiar with diseases and conditions associated with the physical challenges of instrumental performance. No doubt they have dermatologists on their staff familiar with your specific condition. If there is an effective treatment or amelioration they would probably know it from having studied and treated other musicians. Most hospitals and clinics, even famous and prestigious ones, don't have this kind of specialized knowledge.
You can also check with the national performing arts medical organization to see if there are specialized clinics near you: https://artsmed.org.
Post Edited (2022-08-25 19:10)
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Author: EbClarinet
Date: 2022-08-27 04:34
It's the instrument. I had this same problem with a Bb Tenor Sax and a str8 Bb soprano sax, from 2 different music stores. I own a "woodwind" Eb Clarinet with a 5RV and tiff reed and the whole ensemble is jealous of me of how well I play in tune. Change 2 a better type of horn and u should b fine
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mbtldsongministry/
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Author: lydian
Date: 2022-08-28 07:35
EbClarinet wrote:
> It's the instrument. I had this same problem with a Bb Tenor
> Sax and a str8 Bb soprano sax, from 2 different music stores.
> I own a "woodwind" Eb Clarinet with a 5RV and tiff reed and the
> whole ensemble is jealous of me of how well I play in tune.
> Change 2 a better type of horn and u should b fine
>
So every instrument you play is flat, and the problem is the instrument? I think we’ve identified the problem.
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Author: Hardlec
Date: 2022-10-04 23:54
I started playing saxophone in 1966. I learned flute and Clarinet by 1969. I played from 6th grade to a the end of College. In college I was the lead alto sax in the jazz band, the First chair Clarinet in the concert band, I played flute and oboe for the community orchestra, and I sang.
Afterward I stayed in the community band, but I started sprouting hernias.
I gave up playing reeds because of my health. I learned about Electronic Wind Instruments in 2016, and took up the EWI. After a couple of years on the EWI tried to pick up a clarinet again. I have a saxophone which I can get noise out of, and I have an Eb which I picked up for fun, but my main instrument is a 100 year old "Pedler" from Elkhart, Indiana. it has been overhauled and plays beautifully.
I play in 3 community bands (Third Clarinet) and in Church.
To be very honest, I play the Eb to create the possibility of having a short solo once in a while, something that won't happen now. It's fun, but it's a novelty.
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