 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-08-19 02:35
My wife and I were watching the John Williams concert with the Berlin Philharmonic tonight at dinner. I felt struck by how young the orchestra seems to look on average. I know, as I get older, everyone looks young. and faces are sometimes deceptive. But still...
Especially directed to those of you in Europe who have recently seen the orchestra in live performance, are they in some kind of youth movement? Or is my impression wrong? Or was the orchestra for the Williams concert unusually filled with young subs replacing more senior players who were able to sign out of that particular concert?
Karl
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2022-08-19 03:57
FWIW: I get that impression everywhere. I'm always thinking "Surely, they must be an intern." I think experience used to be valued more, literally speaking. There doesn't seem to be a sense of "working your way up" anymore, it's all at once or not at all. It seems like everyone moves into a senior position right out of college.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-08-19 04:33
Matt74 wrote:
> FWIW: I get that impression everywhere. I'm always thinking
> "Surely, they must be an intern." I think experience used to
> be valued more, literally speaking. There doesn't seem to be a
> sense of "working your way up" anymore, it's all at once or not
> at all. It seems like everyone moves into a senior position
> right out of college.
>
The Philadelphia Orchestra (my hometown group) has always hired young players for section positions - usually with some experience, but not necessarily a lot. They used to hire a lot of players directly from the Curtis Institute before the union got involved in enforcing audition requirements, sometimes with no experience beyond the Curtis Orchestra. So I'm used to seeing a few young faces scattered over the orchestra.
But each one in a top-level orchestra like Philadelphia's (or I assume Berlin's) indicates that a much older player has left - usually retired or sometimes lured by a better contract elsewhere. An orchestra that seems to have a preponderance of young players implies there has been a slew of departures for one reason or another (or an expansion, which isn't likely the case in Berlin).
I was just curious if my impression that some kind of generational shift had happened to Berlin was right or I was misled by the camera director's preference for showing the younger players.
Karl
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Author: JohnP
Date: 2022-08-19 18:01
I just had a quick look at this concert and there seem to be subs in the woodwind at least, two bassoons, 2nd clarinet, 1st and 2nd oboes, 1st flute.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-08-19 20:57
JohnP wrote:
> I just had a quick look at this concert and there seem to be
> subs in the woodwind at least, two bassoons, 2nd clarinet, 1st
> and 2nd oboes, 1st flute.
That was a suspicion I had.
Karl
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2022-08-20 16:03
At least some members of the flute, oboe and clarinet sections are members of the Karajan Akademie. You can see their list of current players here:
https://www.berliner-philharmoniker.de/akademie/stipendiatenabsolventen/
In that sense they are not "subs" but members of a mentoring system which gives the students the wonderful opportunity to play in the BPO.
In Switzerland where I work, we have a mandatory retirement age of 65. It is my understanding that in the USA there is no mandatory retirement age, which allows some players to continue to play in the orchestra until they are even 80! Perhaps this could contribute to the median age of orchestras in the US being higher than in Europe?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2022-08-20 16:52
Liquorice wrote:
> In Switzerland where I work, we have a mandatory retirement age
> of 65. It is my understanding that in the USA there is no
> mandatory retirement age, which allows some players to continue
> to play in the orchestra until they are even 80! Perhaps this
> could contribute to the median age of orchestras in the US
> being higher than in Europe?
Interesting. In the U.S. there were mandatory retirement ages spelled out in many AFM (musicians' union) contracts. But at one point in the 1980s, I think, the U.S. Supreme Court struck those down.
Karl
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