 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-09-01 12:55
Hi Eevryone,
As some of you may remember, I have been asking the BB about cents sharp and other related intonation questions recently. Let me set the stage for one more query. I know this is the kind of question that gets many BB members out there somewhat technologically excited and is also a cool way for them to demonstrate their savy - don't let down.
I recently bought a Leblanc Dynamic 2 from the estate of a player than that bought the instrument new in the mid-1950s; the warranty card was included. I had the clarinet repadded by a BB participant and it is excellent shape. However, in the last few weeks of "making friends" with the instrument, I find that I really need to have a longer barrel for these warm months (up here in the US for the AU and NZ BB members). But here is the twist, the original barrel that is with the clarinet is 67mm long. I assume that barrel to be the original since all markings are the same for the instrument.
I have two questions/statements.
1. To find a 68mm barrel is not the easiest things (hey, if you've got one I can borrow and try out, great). Is this the best choice?
2. Do other vintage Leblanc clarinets also have 67mm barrels as standard (that should get the calipers out)and if so, have you got 68mm barrels?
Regards,
Hank
PS The need for a 68mm barrel is the same no matter which of my arsenal of mouthpieces I use. I found a 1 mm tuning ring in the case BTW but that may have been used between the sections as I find a pull is necessary.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2002-09-01 14:26
What is the nominal bore of your leBlanc?
I would think of the Barrel as a 'coupling' or link between your internal air volume and the rest of the horn, so the length is more variable than you might imagine.
My guess is that the volume of your mouthpiece is pretty small, and the extra length needed in your barrel compensates for this.
Several of the smaller makers will produce a barrel designed to fit the larger bore clarinets (and I'm NOT sure yours is one) that could well serve.
Muncy, Jepp, Spriggs, Fobes and others should be able to fit you.
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-09-01 14:43
Hi,
I had hoped to hear from you :-).
I believe that the nominal bore of the Dynamic 2 is in the .590 category so a pretty big bore. I base this assumption not on actual measurements but on what others on the BB have to say about that vintage Dynamic instrument.
Yes, dealing with one of the smaller speciality barrel makers is perhaps the best way to go. Volume may be a major factor in the whole equation.
Thanks,
Hank
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-09-01 15:15
Hank - You are correct re: bore size [15.0mm], see the threads on Dynamic H and LeBlanc L7. As nearly as I can measure, they are all cylindrical [as opposed to polycyl, conical etc, "modified bores"] possibly for patent-life reasons [Buffet/Carre]. My L7 is about 14.8mm, [it came with 2 barrels, 66 and 64{most used}], and has somewhat diff. 12ths tuning and volume capabilities [per Lee Gibson]. It would be great if Tom Ridenour would comment, please. Your finding a tuning ring is [to me] your solution, you may need another 1 mm one for barrel use as well as between joints to match others pitch. I haven't played my Dyn 2 with others, except for FM radio classics, but havent found significant sharpness. To me, the TOTAL length of the mp + barrel is the important criterion to produce desired pitch [between A= 440 and 444 cps, Hertz]. My mps do vary from 70-73 mm , body [above tenon] to tip. Measure, Don
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-09-01 15:47
One could try a mouthpiece faced on a Zinner blank(from International in Illinois), which I've found to be low in pitch. A Portnoy BPo2 mouthpiece I have is also quite low in pitch. The Bradley barrel adjusts to 69mm. I've also seen oboes with a bead of epoxy run down the bottom side of the bore to lower the pitch. You may also wish to call Clark Fobes or Mr. Chadash and ask them to make a longer barrel(probably at added cost). Good luck!!
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2002-09-01 15:48
the length of my leblanc LL,s orig barrel is 67mm also. but my synphony ,s is 65mm
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-09-01 16:47
Hi,
A very interesting group of answers so far. But let me think out loud a little.
I'm a flight instructor and am very familiar with the basic aerodynamic laws. Could the use of a more restrictive diameter barrel with a large bore horn in fact create a venturi effect causing increased velocity air to enter the bore of the clarinet. The question is would faster velocity = higher pitch. Perhaps a rocket scientist might wish to comment on this.
Thanks for the reminder that the Bradley barrel goes to 69mm. I have contact two smaller barrel makers that are sponsors and am waiting to see what they might have for me.
It is intersting that the LL has a 67mm barrel. I also do have 4 Portnoy BP02 (don't ask why) and the result is pretty much the same.
Thanks to all for an intersting set of responses.
Regards,
Hank
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-09-01 17:14
Hank wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm a flight instructor and am very familiar with the basic
> aerodynamic laws.
Plug in the diameters and average air flow rates; the velocity differential is very small between the two diameters.
However, the step does "interesting" things with a standing wave - a whole different area of mathematics.
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-09-01 17:27
From MC: However, the step does "interesting" things with a standing wave - a whole different area of mathematics.
Computations that complex make my head hurt!
Hank
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-09-01 17:35
Sorry, I'm not a rocket scientist so I can't answer your question about the Venturi effect. I would mention, however, that there are a number of barrel makers who make 68mm barrels as part of their standard line (though they don't always show up in the Woodwind & Brasswind catalog). Pyne and Muncy both make 68mm barrels. So does Scott. Also, Buffet barrels (including Chadash and Moennig) all go to 68mm. However, with a large bore clarinet, you will need to be careful to match the bore of your barrel to your instrument. The Buffets are probably too small. And you should probably ask the other makers what makes/models their barrels are designed for. Muncy advertises barrels for Leblanc clarinets, so that might be a place to start and you might also try contacting Leblanc directly. If they make alternative barrels for their current "Big Easy" model, that might be an alternative.
The lower cost approach would be to use tuning rings. In particular, if some of your "long" fingered notes are sharp, you may need to pull out some between the upper and lower joint even with a longer barrel.
Finally, I have a BP02 mouthpiece that came with an old clarinet I purchased and I don't find that it lowers my pitch any (YMMV). Nor have I heard anywhere before that the BP02 had this characteristic. I have heard from several sources over the years that Genusa mouthpieces lower pitch but you couldn't prove it by the one I have (that also came an old clarinet).
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-09-01 18:29
Interesting, isn't it! Yes, just visualizing the math. that might be associated with "venturi" and/or "step" [?turbulence-generation? by bore mis-match??] acoustic "paper research", scares me off! UGH! My 67mm Dyn 2 barrel appears to be original, it has no bore-step w: the UJ. I'll try it this PM for pitch against classics on FM, using several [known length] mps with VD facings. Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-09-01 19:49
A quick check with my big-bore [1954] Selmer's HS* [French-made] mp vs the Dallas Wind Symp [who is their solo cl'ist?] playing the Schwanda [sp?] P & F was, to my ears, right in tune. Mp 72 mm + 67 barrel = 139 mm total. Will try my 5RVL on O'Brien glass [70mm] and report, maybe others. Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-09-02 18:12
Test #2, I played along with the Englih Horn [not the most secure inst. pitch-wise, per my experience] solo on Sibelius beautiful "Swan of Tuonela" [across the break!] with my "most-classic" 5RVL glass. It is 70 mm in length, and sure enough, needed to pull about 2mm to be comfortable, even using right fingerresonance fingering on throat tones! Good luck, experiment! Don
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-09-02 21:52
Hi Everyone,
Many thanks for your BB postings and private emails.
I heard back from Robert Scott by email yesterday and he suggested two different bore barrels that he makes that might be acceptable; I'll have to find out which one is most appropriate for my usage. The barrels come in 68mm and 69mm barrels and can be had at an excellent price. Hey, patronize our sponsors!!!!
In my own testing with slow scales, arpeggios, and the tuner (not as satisfying as Don Berger's technique), when I use the 67mm stock barrel or my 67mm Scott barrel with the 1mm tuning ring, the clarinet is right on with itself. In fact, frighteningly so!
Looks like for a Leblanc vintage clarinet like my Dynamic 2 that comes standard with a 67mm barrel, one should have a 68mm barrel (maybe a 69mm)for those hot, summer months. However several BB responses seem to indicate that Leblanc used many different sized barrels in the 1950s and probably 1960s. Caution required I suspect; one size will not fit all!
Editorial Note: Wonderful, timely, and insightful traffic on my small problem.
Hank
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-09-02 21:56
Hank wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Hey, patronize
> our sponsors!!!!
I'd love for Robert to be a sponsor ...
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-09-02 22:02
The reason for the different barrel lengths may be that Leblanc's models had a variety of bore sizes. Generally speaking, the larger the bore, the longer the clarinet must be. Thus, it doesn't surprise me to hear that the stock barrels for their relatively large bore Dynamic 2 and LL might be a little longer than the barrel for their smaller bored Symphonie and L7.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Hank
Date: 2002-09-02 22:07
Jack,
I think you have broken to code. You too could be a rocket scientist.
Hank
PS Mark, I thought Robert Scott was a sponsor. I did get his email address from this website and assumed.... You know what happens when you assume!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-09-02 23:02
Hank wrote:
> PS Mark, I thought Robert Scott was a sponsor. I did get his
> email address from this website and assumed.... You know what
> happens when you assume!
No problem ;^)
The Retail section is free for all vendors.
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Author: Rex N.
Date: 2022-07-19 06:41
Hello all, I see this was written many years ago but came upon it for the same reason as Hank. Along with several others, my main instrument is a Leblanc Infinité. I probably have 30 clarinets 12 of those pro models but this 1995 Leblanc infinity is my best friend. The only instrument that competes sound-wise And maybe even a little better could be from my Selmer Series 9’’s, Consecutive serial numbers of B-flat and an A. But I’m not accustomed to the alternate E flat and articulated G-sharp etc. so I’m selling those. I don’t ever play the A.
My Leblanc tuning is very, very consistent but… consistently sharp by 3 (winter) to 8ish cents (summer) depending on the day. I should probably get it on a tuner again to confirm those numbers. Anyway, most times I can correct with a tuning ring, on occasion I stick in an additional thin ring. It’s most affected in the summertime here in Southern California, humidity about 70% right now.
I’m curious if anyone came up with a replacement barrel at 68 mm that sounded as good as the original. And fixed the tuning issue in warm weather. I believe I’m at -66. Could be 67. Open Measure to ton of Barrels From some B&H horns, and none of them go to 68. I haven’t measured it in a while.
Thanks a lot for the interesting read even though it was “vintage”
Rex
MAG Records
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-07-19 07:12
Hi Rex,
Interesting how "what goes around comes around..." or words to that effect. With that LeBlanc (long since sold) the late Bob Scott recommended that I use one of his Delrin barrels that he was making for R13 customers.
I bought a 67mm and 68mm Scott aa2 barrel from him which was what the number was for them. They played great but Bob told me a Moennig barrel would also get you pretty close. I doubt that you will find any for sale (not mine as I still carry them when I have an outdoor summer gig on clarinet).
My current main clarinet is a Yamaha CS Custom, and my backup is a vintage LeBlanc L200. Both are perfectly intune throughout the entire register.
Bob was an interesting fellow, and I am glad that I was a customer. Sitting by him at the repair bench was a wonderful experience. I have several of Bob's handmade 4-point ligatures. They play great but not as good as my old Harrison or Bonade ligatures.
Hank
PS I'd try a Moennig or Chadash R13 barrel on your LeBlanc Infinite.
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Author: donald
Date: 2022-07-19 10:20
I have a Buffet R13 67 or 68mm barrel around somewhere that I've never used for anything, would swap it for shipping plus a box of reeds (came with an old clarinet that I can play well in tune with a 66mm barrel).
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2022-07-19 17:10
Sounds to me like using the thin tuning ring is the solution. Put a little rubber cement on it if it falls out every time you remove your barrel.
A 1mm longer barrel may be too much correction.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2022-07-19 19:36
Hi All,
I am not sure a standard R13 will give you the desired result of what might be a wide 12th. I have a Moennig and Chadash barrel as well as a standard barrel that John Butler reamed out for me; all pretty well fixed the problem I experienced.
John Butler said the reamer he used was a standard taper barrel that duplicated the Moennig barrel. Can't remember the reamer name/# but it worked fine.
Hank
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Author: Rex N.
Date: 2022-07-19 19:37
Thanks much for your input. I appreciate the offer Donald. If that was a high end Leblanc barrel, I’d probably snap it up. But the truth is, Mojo is correct, the rings solve the problem. I’m no longer playing professionally. Wife and I playing for fun and attempting to stay sharp.. I have a pretty sophisticated studio here at home. Running ProTools through a 24 channel analog console and a bunch of outboard gear. Just keeping my toe in the business. Long since I retired.
I want to say thank you to the people on this board. It’s a pretty cool thing for an old timer like me to see so much interest in clarinet and the music.
All the best,
Rex N.
MAG Records
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